12-06-2007 10:17 PM - edited 12-06-2007 10:19 PM
Message Edited by Wulazaga on 12-06-2007 10:19 PM
12-07-2007 12:06 AM
(I don't think it ever had any support on any of the 64 bit platforms, even XP 64-bit).
01-16-2008 10:09 AM - edited 01-16-2008 10:11 AM
Message Edited by GMB on 01-16-2008 10:11 AM
01-30-2008 10:16 AM
I would highly recommend looking at a new wheel though. Once you start using a 900 degree race wheel, you'll be amazed you went to long without one.
02-28-2008 10:31 PM
02-29-2008 05:24 AM
Imho it's the most comfortable joystick up to date but I can't use it with Vista. None of its successors could satisfy me nearly halfway (and so I didn't and even won't buy one). I really don't understand Logitech's argument... beside of making more money with selling more products to more and more displeased customers.
In the 90's Logitech was a nice option (nice products, nice service, mediocre prices) for those who wanted good quality but don't wanna pay Microsoft. Where has this distinction gone?
03-04-2008 12:28 PM - edited 03-05-2008 09:22 AM
These devices (Wingman Force, Formula, Formula Force) were some of the first DirectInput gaming devices. These were designed when USB was still a small market technology, and are in fact [technically] serial devices, even though they have a USB port. Because of the bandwidth constraints of having something being serial compatible, original force feedback devices had to load the forces into the device's memory, and then would execute the force when instructed by the PC. Simple forces allowed up to 10 effects, but later/more complex force feedback executions caused the memory to be constrained, possibly to 7 or less effects.
Later Force Feedback devices, basically all devices supported by LGS 5.01 and above, have a different way of managing effects. The PC could send and execute individual effects, as well as actively remove and replace the effects without closing and reopening the game. This, combined with greater memory banks and no need for legacy serial support, allowed for a significantly greater amount of effects and this is the standard basically used by all the games developed in the last few years.
We had to pull a lot of tricks to keep force feedback working properly on these devices, and simply put, the way force feedback is implemented in games moved past what the standard was when we launched this product line (September of 1998). We also couldn't make current games compatible with this device, so even if we got the driver working, I can't guarantee you would even be able to use this device with the games that are designed for Vista. Modern games simply would throw too much information at this device for it to handle reliably.
We are not ending Vista support in some sort of malicious way. PC technology has simply progressed so far that we have to recognize where we have to limit the technology. We still support these wheels/joysticks, but we have to do so on the OSes they were designed for (Windows 95-XP, depending on the LGS version).
Message Edited by CharlesB on 03-05-2008 09:22 AM
06-09-2008 04:22 PM - edited 06-09-2008 04:28 PM
Also the wheel works as it should under x86 Vista ( a friend of mine had it working under vista x86) so basically the OS design isn't the issue here, otherwise vista would have broken the support.
However, the reason which is put forth as to why it is impossible to create x64 drivers seems more of a blunt "sorry we want you to buy a new wheel now". This statement is so obviously untrue. You see with 64 bit processing, the actual algorithm within the driver should only change those things which have to do with adressing within memory such as the use of datatypes for 64 bit adressing. (compare this to using a number format with leading zeroes. first you used to use 32 positions for the number and now with x64 we 64 positions, that's about the whole change as far as I can see, and a quick look into the documentation on how to write win x64 drivers seems to support this view at least superficially)
If memoryadressing within the wheel is the problem, then some kind of converter is not impossible to write.
Even if we would have a "works in most circumstances" ßeta driver without Force support it would still be beter than nothing, it would give me my wheel back. (at least a bit of it)
Message Edited by ocf81 on 06-09-2008 04:28 PM
08-04-2008 08:22 AM
08-08-2008 07:43 AM
I do however agree with Logitech regarding the age of the product and it's connectivity - it's done very well for it's age, but regardless of those facts, it would still be a very simple change in drivers even just to get the wheel recognisable as a working input device.
Failing that, I'll be attempting to create my own driver within the next week when I've some time. Starting playing around with rFactor and modifications and need a wheel to be working, yet I've nowhere near enough money to replace it with more recent hardware. It would just be a tad easier if Logitech would co-operate a bit easier - after all, the change in code to allow 64bit addressing would take around 5 minutes for an established driver developer for the basic input. The force feedback, whilst negligable, would take significantly longer, but for most of us posting in this forum, that would be a mere nicety.