Harmony Remotes - Software/Firmware

[GLW]

There are plenty of reasons to delete device commands. Just because you don't prefer to use the device in that way doesn't make it unimportant. Geesh. Smug much?

[WannabeActuary]

there is nothing wrong with 'cleaning up' the device pages...but because device mode is NOT the intended use, it's doubtful that logitech will ever make many enhancements to that side to make programming/editing the device level pages easier

[palpatine]

I truly have no need for logitech to implement this functionality for me, based on prior experience of logitech software I really can't trust them to do it effectively.  All I ask is that they open up some specifications and interfaces so that those of us who actually posess some talent in programming and user interface design can produce a half-useable alternative to the default trash...

Open source anyone?

[hhatkin]

The principle of Harmonys is to use Activities. If you buy one and choose not to use the principle, then first you have wasted your money, and second you can't expect Logitech to change the principle. What actions could you do better with "open source"? - whatever that is.  If they include deleting Devices' commands what are one or two of your many reasons for that?

[palpatine]

I bought the harmony simply because it's one of the most desirable remotes out there, I love the touch screen, the shape, the tactile feedback and layout of the buttons, the way it doesn't slip of of the charging cradle, the backlighting, the support for a wide number of devices.

No, I didn't buy it for "activities", that's just firmware, which when you really get down to it is simply an (easily changable) bunch of numbers written somewhere on a chip inside of the device.  What I wanted was the thing, not the numbers.

It's like the iPhone, the multi-touch screen is amazing, but I still use mine to view webpages made by someone other than apple (webpages are also just numbers if you look closely enough), and that ability only serves to make the iPhone even more desirable...

As for open source?  Think java, linux, or firefox, or the apache web server that almost every company on the internet uses.  Open source is a cultural movement that encourages users of software to also be the creators, to submit changes and improvements, it allows people to fix things for themselves and not to have to pester a company to make such changes.  Projects such as Wikipedia were born out of the open source movement.

The alternative to open source is that the company exists purely for profit and and must pay developer time for all changes, and so must see a sufficient return in PR or marketablility for improvements to happen at all.  No matter how obvious it is that the change would result in better software.

After all, we don't have to persuade apple to make apps for the app store, or pages for the web.  Why then should we accept that all the inherant potential of the harmony remote is restricted by the limited time, resources and imagination of just a handful of employees in the employment of Logitech?

[JWF]

I am with you Palpatine.  This software is like candy.  The first few bites are great, but eat too much and you get sick of it.  I would love to see Logitech rethink this software.  If this is just a pretty interface on a web based app then I have seen much better interfaces via ActiveX/JavaScript/J2EE on a host of other apps that put this interface to shame. 

It also is not well suited to support the 1000 which is mostly a soft button remote as opposed to all the other Harmony remotes that are mostly hard button based.  In fact, I would like to see a separate app just for the 1000 because of it's screen based interface.  I think what happens is that you get the lowest common denominator with this software and that is a woeful injustice to the 1000.  I think the software probably limits the 1000 and what it can do because they also have to support all the other remotes can't do the things the 1000 can.

So I stand with you.  This app is in serious need of a redesign.

[hhatkin]

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palpatine wrote: 

No, I didn't buy it for "activities", that's just firmware

Think java, linux, or firefox, or the apache web server

---

And the firmware is what makes the Activities principle work.

Logi sell Harmonys on that principle; there's no reason why they should change the principle.

I agree - of course - about the One's physical attractions, but you could have bought equally good features on a remote that worked on alternative principles that were more to your liking.

You might buy a TV and use it only to listen to radio, but a better way to do that would be - buy a radio.

I use java applications though with almost no knowledge of how they work, I have tried the Linux OS, I use Firefox in preference to IE though again with little understanding of why, and I've no idea what an "apache web server" is. I'm not interested in any of them, I certainly don't think about them at all, and they don't affect my opinions on the defects of the Harmony - which are numerous but negligible!

As I've no experience of the 1000 I can't comment on that but I can understand that the problem might be more obvious there.

Message Edited by hhatkin on 11-30-2008 01:22 PM

[Scooterjay]

JWF and palpatine:  I agree that the software can be difficult to work with at times--it's not always real intuitive.  But as Wannabe and hhatkin have said, the "meat and potatoes" of the Harmony line of remotes are the ACTIVITIES.  If you do not want to work with activities--that's fine.  Guess what?  You bought the wrong remote for your needs.  Aesthetic appeal should only go so far when making purchases like a remote control than controls all of your equipment.  Incidentally, I will tell you that I have recently learned (from Level 2 tech support) that Logitech does not recommend having more than 18 steps in any one activity (though I have a couple with 30 or so that work fine). But that's neither here nor there.  I do agree 100% about the 1000--they do need to do something drastic with the software specifically for it as there are too many issues revolving around it.  But the rest of us on these forums have used many versions of their software with great success.  Yes, it takes some trial and error but nowdays, setting up a new TV or iPod takes that as well.  I have 14 devices controlling over 20 avtivities and have had very few problems.  I can also assure you none of us work for-or with Logitech--we just believe in the produucts they way they are.  These are pretty high end products with low end prices that pretty much do what they are advertised to do.  Sure, they could be improved, and I feel Logitech does seem to work on improvements a lot--to the hardware and software.  But they are dealing with hundreds of thousands of devices and hundreds of thousands of people who own their remotes--all with different needs and wants.  They have to account for "Joe The Plumber" and his wife as well as WannabeActuary and hhatkin and remotevisitor and rehaz1 and bevhoward and myself--who understand the ins and outs of their products--and want more.  And...we get it.

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Harmony 659 (Loved it--not the first Harmony remote, but the first one with real consumer appeal)
Harmony 880 (It had a great, for the time, customizable display screen that still functions nicely)
Harmony ONE (Full Color Touch Screen Love--'nuff said!)
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[palpatine]

I refuse to accept that I bought the wrong device.

The remote does everything I want, and I have no complaints about it (except possibly lack of RF support, or custom icons - why can we only specify custom icons for channel logos?)

My complaint is about the sheer pain necessary in configuring the remote to do what I KNOW it is capable of.  One thing I did before buying was to download the software so I could see how it work in advanced.  Unfortunately this was useless as the software demands I register a remote before it'll work.

I personally believe that Logitech know how deeply flawed their software is, and so purposely keep it hidden until such point as a purchase as made, after which they already have my money and therefore cease to care.