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890 vx 890 Pro
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07-12-2009 08:08 PM
First let me say that I've searched high and low for any comparisons of the 890 and 890 Pro, and after several weeks, I'm still confused about which model to go with. I currently have the 890 and have been using it for years. In fact, the Pause, Play, and FF buttons are worn off because of my TiVo/Wife combination. She likes to comment about everything we watch.
So now we're expanding to 6 zones with the shared Tivo in the audio/video closet in the basement and LCD TVs in each of the 6 zones, and in-wall speakers driven by a 12 channel whole house amplifier in the basement (12 channels = 6 zones of stereo), not to mention an AudioAuthority AVM-562 HD Video Matrix. For volume control, I plan to have 6 Xantech RGC11s hardwired to the 6 RF extenders. So basically, when I press volume up or down (or mute), the RF extender sends a signal to the Xantech RGC11 in the basement, and the line level into the amplifier is adjusted. This works great while testing with a single 890, and I think it will work great with 5 additional 890s and 5 additional RF extenders - - if that's actually the best way to go.
Incidentally, the IR signal out from one port of each RF extender needs to be piped back into the corresponding zone to an IR Blaster to turn the LCD TV on and off. Not all LCD TVs are the same model, however, and there are already (2) 26" LCD TVs which are both the same model made by Insignia.
So I know that the 890 Pro can handle 6 RF extenders, and as many as 6 remotes can be added to an account. But because the IR has to be piped back into the zone to toggle the power on/off of the LCD TV, I'm wondering if it isn't wise to got with (6) 890s instead of (6) 890 Pros, since I already own (1) 890.
It would be nice to take a 890Pro and roam around the house from zone to zone and take control of each zone, but that's not a big priority. I would pay for the convenience of having a dedicated remote in each of the 6 zones.
I should mention that the Xantech RGC11 (Remote Gain Control) can be programmed in such a way to where each one responds to a different code group. That is, RGC11 #1 responds to code group 30, and RGC11 #2 responds to code group 80, etc. This way, they can all be wired on a common IR bus coming from a single emitter port on a single RF extender. Or if I had 6 extenders, they could all be programmed to code group 30 and hardwired to Port A on each of the RF extenders. But since I need to pipe the RF signal back into the zone, 4 ports on an extender is not sufficient.
At this point, I'm not sure if I gain anything by going with the Pro. Since I have to pipe the IR signal back into each zone, I still need 6 RF extenders, since Port A is for volume control, and the remaining 3 ports is not enough to blast IR back into the 6 zones. And I don't want to walk around the house with a single remote and control the zones from a single remote. I'm thinking (6) 890s and (6) RF extenders, and I realize that I'll have 6 separate accounts to deal with, which is a negative.
I've read the 890Pro documentation and I'm still up in the air. Hoping maybe someone out there has some experience with the 890 Pro and multi-zone whole house audio/video.
Thanks!
Solved! Go to Solution.
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-12-2009 08:39 PM - edited 07-12-2009 08:41 PM
Hey. Let me preface everything I'm about to say with, "I'm no expert", but I figured I'd share what I know.
I have had two 890s for a few years now doing multi-zone. I've just now purchased an 890 Pro and am trying to migrate to that. Here are my thoughts and lessons learned.
First of all, having nothing to do with the 890 Pro, I'm wondering why you need the IR piped back from your basement into the zone in question. If it's just to control the TV that's physically located in the zone as opposed to all or most of your other equipment, you don't have to pipe the IR back to the zone. When programming your remote, you indicated for each device whether the device is to be controlled by your RF Extender (located in your basement) or by the Remote itself (via IR instead of RF). You want to set up the TV to be controlled by the Remote itself. Sounds like everything else is in your basement, and therefore all other equipment should be controlled by the RF Extender. So I'm betting that at this point I've opened your eyes up to something great, or I've stated the obvious and look like a dufus. ![]()
Anyway, here's why I'm upgrading to the 890 Pro... First of all, the regular 890 is limited to 15 total devices. I do not wish to walk around from room to room with a sole remote to control everything, but on the flip side, I wanted each and every remote to be programmed identically to work in every room, so that I don't have to worry about whether at any given time I'm holding the right remote in the right room (the remotes tend to wander in our house). Well, you rapidly hit that 15-device limit if you attempt the above. Next, I didn't like the idea that each time I'd bring another room online, I have to add another RF extender to my wiring closet with IR tentacles running all over the place. And since the price of both the 890 and 890 Pro seem to be falling rapidly, paying for the expensive one is less intimidating to me now.
Then the last reason why I made the move is that the software to program the 890 does not manage multiple remotes. I believe what you're technically supposed to do is create one account per remote, thereby duplicating a lot of equipment (perhaps a receiver or an HDMI matrix) on multiple accounts. What a pain in the butt. I did find a way to trick the software into thinking there's only one remote, but it kept figuring out that I had two RF extenders, and I kept having to delete the extra one that kept showing up in my account. Just pain in the butt factor here.
There are apparently other reasons to upgrade that I haven't tested yet, and that's that all RF communication for all 890 Pros in your house seems to go thru the one Harmony 890Pro that you designated as the master. The benefit of this would appear to be that the central remote knows the state of all devices, so that if one remote in the master bedroom was calling for your TiVO to be turned on, but your TiVO was already being watched in the living room by my wife, the central remote would know that it's already on and therefore *not* send the signal to the TiVO to toggle power, which would otherwise now turn it off. That's just one example of knowing state.
Unfortunately, that's all I have right now. I don't mean to hijack your thread here, but the questions this has led me to is how to move devices and activities between "rooms" in the 890 Pro software. When I logged into my 890 account and hooked up my 890 Pro, the software migrated all of my equipment to just one "room". I've added the other rooms, but they're now empty, and instead of recreating all the devices and activities in the new rooms, I'd like to simply move them over. I'm all ears on that one.
Can't think of anything else to add. Shoot me a line if you have more questions, or if you happen to know something I don't.
Thanks.
-Jim
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-12-2009 10:02 PM
I appreciate the input. Not feeling hijacked one bit.
I've decided to blast the IR back into each zone because I don't want to rely on line of sight, although I have considered using line of sight to control the LCD TV, but I think that relying on line of sight is prone to error. Forget to point the remote at the LCD TV, hit the Power button, and your components are suddenly out of synch, and the wife is suddenly down on your setup and staging a revolt. The TV is on and everything else is off. The IR blaster in the zone is added insurance that when you start or stop an activity, the LCD TVs go along for the ride.
The remote to remote communication to relay device on/off status is a good reason to go Pro, however, the TiVo, DirecTV receiver, and other video devices will be steady on, since the idea of a video matrix switch is that you can flip between Tivo, DirecTV, AppleTV, BluRay, etc. Turning any video device off sort of kills the buzz you get from the neat little $2400 HD video matrix in your component stack. The only component which may be switched on and off is the Home Theater receiver, but even that can be left on and just muted instead.
Seems to me that since I want to blast IR into 6 different zones, I have no choice but to go with 6 RF extenders. That much is certain. I could get by with (2) 890 Pros (1 for the Home Theater and office in the basement, and another to cover the remaining 4 zones upstairs), but then, I'd be running from zone to zone trying to find the remote, then having to select the proper zone once I locate one. For the reason alone, I'd have either (6) 890s or (6) 890 Pros, no fewer.
But it is good to hear of at least one person who has used (2) 890s for a multi-zone setup. Thanks iioftexas. Interesting username. They call me Tee and I'm In El Paso.
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 07:21 AM
long posts...read most of the first post and I think I got the jist of the underlying question...if I'm off, just let me know...
in short, you want to know if you should get 890Pro's or regular 890's...
long story short, if any of the devices like the 12 channel stereo, can be turned on/off, you're more than likely going to run into problems with using regular 890s. for instance, if you turn on an activity in zone 1 with an 890....it'll turn on all the needed devices, etc. then, your wife goes into zone 2 and uses a regular 890 to turn on an activity...well, THAT remote doesn't know that the shared devices (like the 12 channel stereo) is already one. now, if each zone has discrete power commands you might be ok...but in short...if any of your devices are shared, the best suggestion I can make is to use 890Pro's, as they feature interremote communication to know what the other remotes have done.
ONLY the 890Pro features the interremote communication to keep the device power/input status straight
(Note: I am not affiliated with Logitech®, Inc.) Have you seen the FAQ Sticky? Useful Links Definition of Delays
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 07:23 AM
(Note: I am not affiliated with Logitech®, Inc.) Have you seen the FAQ Sticky? Useful Links Definition of Delays
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 09:25 AM
The 12 channel amp will automatically power down a zone after 5 minutes if no line level signal is detected. Since the Tivo and DirecTv tuner will be on all the time, the idea is to send a mute command to the RGC11 and trick the amp into thinking the source has been turned off. If I don't send the mute command during Power Off, the LCD TVs will be off but the sound will continue to be heard in the zone.
When starting an activity in a zone, I have to send a Volume Down, then Volume Up command to unmute the RGC11 for that zone thereby sending line level signal to the amplifier, at which time, it powers up the correct 2 channels and again sends audio into the zone. This works quite nicely.
I had come across the chart which compares the different Logitech models in my research, and I've read the User Manual for the 890Pro, but I really think I'm designing a system which isn't covered in the manual. I don't plan to have a surround receiver, DVD player, etc. in each of the 6 zones, which I think the 890Pro was designed to accomodate. My equipment will be centrally located in an equipment closet. If I needed only a single RF extender and (6) 890s, then perhaps the Pro might be appropriate. But I actually need (6) RF extenders and (6) 890s, and all components will remain on all the time, except for the Home Theater receiver, but that component is not part of the whole house audio/video system and will not be shared. No chance for the receiver to be out of synch since only the remote in the Home Theater will be controlling it.
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 10:15 AM
Just to clarify, there are 6 remote zones and 1 local zone (Home Theater) for a total of 7 zones. The AudioAuthority AVM-562 HD Matrix http://www.audioauthority.com/product_details/AVM-
The beauty of the system, hopefully, is that any audio/video source in the A/V closet can be played in any zone, and audio sources local to a zone can be played locally in the zone, be share with other zones, or they can be broadcast to all zones. The doorbell will interrupt the audio and will be heard through all speakers, as can any voice communications coming over the intercom. Check out www.audioshare.net to see how this should work.
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 10:16 AM
with the 890Pro you can have multiple remotes mapped to the same extender, so no need for 6 extenders
(Note: I am not affiliated with Logitech®, Inc.) Have you seen the FAQ Sticky? Useful Links Definition of Delays
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 01:22 PM
If you're in a zone and you start an activity, I need the LCD TV to power on - without relying on line of sight IR. So one port from one RF extender in the basement would be hardwired to a Xantech J-Box blaster mounted in the zone on the wall opposite the LCD TV.
Thus, the 6 extenders, one for each zone, each blasting IR to power on/off the LCD TV.
Overkill, probably. But why use a combination of RF and line of sight IR, and then someone forgets to aim the remote at the LCD TV.
Re: 890 vx 890 Pro
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07-13-2009 01:25 PM
probably, but understandable...
all my devices have line of sight...but I still use the extender so that I don't have to point the remote at anything...
(Note: I am not affiliated with Logitech®, Inc.) Have you seen the FAQ Sticky? Useful Links Definition of Delays
