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Logi Browser
Solinari
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎10-08-2007

Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

[ Edited ]
I have the Logitech Elite Keyboard, nothing special i know.

Never the less, after playing Battlefield 2 i discovered i can't press more than 2 keys at once specifically with the A-Z keys. So when flying in a chopper i can press W (accelerate) A or D (left and right) but i can't press any other keys like X (for flares) which is a must. So if i am using W to accelerate and A to go left and and i have to drop flares, i have to let go of W or A in order to press X.

Similarly, while on the ground i can't press W A and Z (prone) to do a roll move. Even although i can use W and A or D, with other keys like Shift and any of the Arrow keys, i can't press more than two of the A-Z keys. I have tried this both in USB and PS/2.

I am really really annoyed about this, i bought a USB keyboard hoping to be able to press more keys than the £4 generic PS/2 keyboard i bought and needed to replace. But it turns out that i can press more keys at once with the £4 keyboard than i can with this £15 keyboard.

So basically this keyboard is useless for gaming, i can't use it for Bf2 and probably can't use it for other games too, i don't even know if i can send it back, or if it's even worth the hassle. I think i will just use my £4 keyboard again that i got this to replace.

No more than TWO A-Z keys can i press, TWO keys! I have SetPoint installed by the way, which i had trouble with, i had to use SetPoint 310 to get the hotkeys to work with the USB port. I decided to put it back in the PS/2 port to see if that helped and installed SetPoint 4 which lets me use the hotkeys with PS/2, but it didn't make a difference with the key presses.

I don't have £50 to spend on a gaming keyboard, i thought £15 was quite a bit to spend on just a keyboard, but now it's useless, i don;t know what to do with it.

Message Edited by Solinari on 10-18-2007 10:02 AM
Logi Browser
Solinari
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎10-08-2007

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

[ Edited ]
I have just discovered something, it isn't the A-Z keys, it's the Z, X and C keys that i can't press with other keys. So if i press W, A AND D at the same time i can press any other key expect, Z, X and C. I found this out by pressing and holding in the keys like this...

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWDDDDDDDDDDD then i press X and it doesn't work, same happens with Z and C. In fact if i do this; AAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW and try to press X or Z it doesn't work, with C i can press and hold 3 keys.

But if i do this.....

AAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWDDDDDDDDDRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHH

This is all with pressing and holding them in.

Actually i have just discovered right now that the E key is affected in this way as well.

So we have Z and X that i can't press with more than TWO other keys and C and E which i can't press with more than THREE keys. These are among THEE most common keys used in games like Battlefield 2.

What is going on here? I am so disappointed, i feel like an idiot for buying this keyboard now.

Message Edited by Solinari on 10-18-2007 10:32 AM
Logi Legend
rlowens
Posts: 6,594
Registered: ‎05-22-2006

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

All keyboards have sets of 3 keys that block each other. "Key blocking" is a problem that comes from using a matrix to scan the keys instead of discrete addressing of each key on the keyboard (which would require as many data lines into the keyboard's microcontroller as there are keys on the keyboard, so nobody does it).

Note that you can't press all three keys of DFG at the same time on most keyboards. ExtremeTech has a good description of how this works.

Also, the microcontroller in the keyboard has to remember the state of each key being pressed, and simpler keyboards can handle less keys pressed at once (even if those keys don't "block" each other).

You can use KeyScan to easily test key combos.

See this thread for another discussion.

-Richard L. Owens, author of the uberOptions mod for SetPoint. Unlock the options of your SetPoint-controlled device! mirror
Logi Browser
Solinari
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎10-08-2007

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

[ Edited ]
Thanks for the reply,

But, i can do it with the £4 generic keyboard i have, i can press W A and D with X or Z no problems, i tested it and I'll test it again the way i tested this one. I can assure you that i could drop flares in Bf2 while flying the chopper without having to let go of a key to do it.

If i could press W and A OR D (either or) and press X or Z at the same time then that would be fine, but i can't. I can press W A AND D then press any other keys apart from E and C. This is NOT the case with my cheapo generic keyboard i got this to replace.

I am not making this up.

Message Edited by Solinari on 10-19-2007 06:13 AM
Logi Legend
rlowens
Posts: 6,594
Registered: ‎05-22-2006

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

Ohh, I believe you. The matrix layout may be different on different keyboard models, so which sets of keys do blocking can vary. The thread linked above is about how the MX3200 model can't press W+A+Space at the same time.

So, if the model has blocking sets you can't live with, the only fix is to get a different model. But, getting the info to Logitech is also good, so hopefully it will make it to their designers so future models won't block common keys you need.

-Richard L. Owens, author of the uberOptions mod for SetPoint. Unlock the options of your SetPoint-controlled device! mirror
Logi Legend
rlowens
Posts: 6,594
Registered: ‎05-22-2006

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

BTW, if you use KeyScan I'm pretty sure you will find that it is only sets of 3 that block each other (i.e. you can press any 2 of WAS at once).

Testing the QWEASDZXC keys, a cheap Dell wired keyboard at work has these blocking triplets:
QWA
QWS
QWZ
QWX
QEA
QED
QEZ
QEC
QAS
QAD
QZX
QZC
WES
WED
WEX
WEC
WAS
WSD
WZX
WXC
EAD
ESD
EZC
EXC
ASZ
ASX
ADZ
ADC
AZX
AZC
SDX
SDC
SZX
SXC
DZC
DXC

Trying the same keys on my Logitech LX710 wireless keyboard only has this blocking triplet:
QZX
The LX710 seems to be designed so that the common gaming keys don't block each other. Instead, it seams the keys on the left end of the letters only block keys near the right end ("WA," and "WA9" are blocking triplets I found).
Over-all, the LX710 can handle up to 6 key presses at once and the Dell can handle what seems like 7.

-Richard L. Owens, author of the uberOptions mod for SetPoint. Unlock the options of your SetPoint-controlled device! mirror
Logi Browser
Solinari
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎10-08-2007

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

[ Edited ]
The cheap generic one i have i can't use reliably, i moved my case and the PS/2 connector got sheared off so it's pretty much gubbed. I do have an acient Fujitsu keyboard but it has no hotkeys what so ever, in fact it must have been made at the time when the Windows key was a new thing, it does have that by the way.

It looks like i will have to just switch this so called 'Elite' keyboard for an ancient Fujitsu one that definitely doesn't have this 'ghosting' problem. I will have to get used to the keys again, just after getting used to these keys.

I think my 14 day return time runs out on Monday so i don;t even know if i can return this, but i'm going to try.

Thanks for your help.

EDIT: I just looked at the place i got this stuff and it seems i can't return it, but my hotkeys wouldn't work with the software they provided me when using the USB port, would this qualify as faulty? I managed to get it to work using SetPoint 310, but i don't see why it shouldn't work with SetPoint 4 or the SetPoint 3.33a that it came with. Everything work in the PS/2 port with the latest software, just not in the USB port. IS this faulty? I want rid of this keyboard and i don't want to be out £15, maybe i could put that towards something that will work for gaming.

Message Edited by Solinari on 10-20-2007 06:21 AM
Logi Legend
rlowens
Posts: 6,594
Registered: ‎05-22-2006

Re: Can't Press More Than TWO Keys

SetPoint 3.3-4 not installing correctly is a common software problem. I'm not sure if that qualifies as "faulty" for returns sake, but if the keyboard matrix doesn't allow the keyboard to do what you need I'd call that faulty anyway.

Good luck.

-Richard L. Owens, author of the uberOptions mod for SetPoint. Unlock the options of your SetPoint-controlled device! mirror