Keyboard - Hardware

[JasonSuave]

What I'm wondering is: would Logitech even consider it a "design flaw" if the following keys blocked each other: "n" "space" "apostrophe" "t"

It sounds like one of the previous keyboards had a sequence of the asdw keys blocked, but nothing could ever be done to remedy the issue.

[JasonSuave]

Ok - I've run the test and sure enough the following keys block each other:

"N"
Apostrophe
"T"

so basically, fast typers will always get the "T" dropped whenever they type a contraction.

How could something like this possibly get past QA, Logitech?

[JasonSuave]

Logitech,
do we have any follow-up on this? It's been confirmed through the keystroke application that you cannot simultaneously press: n, apostrophe, and t. Is this something that demands a new hardware iteration, has it even been tested through QA, and should we expect any kind of fix in the near future?

[ctm]

Hi,

I don't have this phantom key blocking issue with my Logitech Illuminated Keyboard and I'm a pretty good typist.  However, I have my own problem with the keyboard not working before Windows boots on one of my three computers.  

Tim

[JasonSuave]

Tim,

Can you check earlier in this thread for the message from "rolends" and download the "KeyScan" application? 

Then, while running the application, simulataneously press the keys: "n" "apostrophe" and "t" -- you should see that the application only registers 2 of the 3 keys when they are pressed simultaneously.  The fact that the hardware behind the keyboard only recognizes 2 keys (of the 3) will create an issue when you very quickly type "n't" contractions.  Some typists (if they are awesome) may be able to press the keys on the keyboard uniquely and very quickly, and may never experience this issue.  But for people like me who slur their keystrokes together, the illuminated keyboard thinks that I'm typing "n" "apostrophe" and "t" all at the same time, and the output drops the "t."

The funny thing is that I have absolutely no problem typing "n't" on any other keyboard, including laptops.  In my 30 years of typing, I've never had issues with the "n't" so I can only assume that no other keyboard has set up "key blocking" on that sequence of keys.

Please stay tuned to this thread as I will be posting a video of the issue - and I will show exactly how the output gets dropped via screenshots.

[JasonSuave]

As promised, I've posted a video on YouTube documenting the issue of Phamtom Key Blocking and how it applies to the "n't" key sequence on the new Illuminated Keyboard.

In the video, I've included a comparison to a keyboard that does not experience the key blocking (the Saitek Eclipse).  I also used the KeyScan software the prove that the issue exists, and also showed some typing examples in Notepad.

Please see the video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8a5p8UuuLE

[JasonSuave]

I just discovered that there is ALSO blocking on "INE" meaning that if you quickly type a word like "line" that the "e" will get dropped from the output.

I think that Logitech must messed up the matricies behind the key blocking on the keyboard.  NO Other manufacturer puts upblocking on such common sequences of keys.  It's almost as if Logitech "shifted" the keys that block each other.

[ctm]

Ok, yes I have confirmed that the keyblocking does exist on n-'-t combo as well as i-n-e using KeyScan with my Logitech Illuminated Keyboard.  However, for my typing technique, it doesn't really affect my ability to type words involving those key combos.  That may be because I'm a musician and I tend to type in a somewhat rhythmically precise way, hence I don't slur keys together. 

Just doing a typing test online measured my speed at 54wpm with no mistakes and 60wpm with two mistakes (neither involving key combo errors), both on paragraphs of about 150 words each. My speed is usually quicker than those tests indicate.  Having to read the passage slows me down a bit and the style of writing was very differenent than what I'd normally be typing, e.g. when composing from my own thoughts.

So yes, I think you have a valid point about these being poor key combos since "ine" and "n't" are common.  However, I'm not sure I would have ever noticed it without specifically using KeyScan to test it.  As I said in my other thread, I much more concerned about being able to use the keyboard to get into the BIOS and make selections in the bootloader, both of which still don't work on my DP45SG motherboard.

A small nitpick: in your video, one of the typed words comes out with the letters in the wrong order and you comment that it must have been a delay in the keyboard.  That's not something you can actually claim when typing by hand since you have no precise measurements of when your fingers actually pressed and released the keys.  It's far more probable that the delay was in your fingers on that one. 

[JasonSuave]

ctm - thanks for taking the time to help confirm the keyblocking issue and to critique the video.

Unfortunately for me, all of the keyboards that I've used in the past have not had blocking on those commonly used sequences of keys, so I've adapted to a certain method of typing that allows me to be "less" rhythmic.  I guess since this typing style doesn't translate, I'll have to pass on owning this keyboard, which is unfortunate, because I've always liked those light up keyboards, but always thought the blue and red ones were just too "blingy."  Anyway, thanks again, and I'll check back with Logitech in a few months to see if they decide that this is ever anything worth fixing.

[brokenfish]

I hope the problem was fixed and that people like ctm got non-faulty keyboards. I'm really looking forward to buying one to replace my problematic diNovo Edge.

By the way, n+'+t issues seem common for potentially broken keyboards. My old Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 keyboard worked well until about two years after I bought it - suddenly, every time I quickly typed "n't" a "0" would mysteriously insert itself between the apostrophe and the t. Another issue was "oun". In a similar fashion to the other problem, a comma would put itself after the u. Finally, the b key would just not work occasionally.