09-06-2011 08:18 PM - edited 09-07-2011 12:26 PM
I was buying logitech wireless desktops in 2000, im on my 3rd logi joystick having worn out two, ive used logi mice for years, on pcs in my home, work plus recommendations to friends, the hardware has always been superb.
In this I include my trusty MX518 ive gamed with for 5 years. Its wearing out so I wanted to treat myself to a G700, I needed more buttons for the current game I play too, so looked forward to the upgrade. Sadly I completely regret my purchase. I have gamed on it for several weeks now and its just wrong.
The whole left hand side has been designed to look fancy curvy in the pictures but is infact an ergonomic disaster.
1- The thumb well is too small. The resting position for the thumb makes it collide with the buttons so mentally I try to push my thumb down but the fancy body curve forces it back up making you fight against it to keep the buttons clear. This is uncomfortable.
2- The only other position the thumb can grip without fouling or getting pushed up is forward, on the ridge below the lights. This too is not comfortable or good to grip but its the only other choice.
The right hand side body is no better, hands just arent shaped like that - looks nice in the pictures tho
1 - The MX has a ridge by the right click for the third finger, and a body panel to hold with your little finger. The 700 has almost no ridge, what little there is ends up a point, not a good grip surface.
2 - The side below the ridge is curved down away into the mouse making gripping it tough for your third finger. The curve forces it to twist inward in search of good grip station, unless you use the middle of finger 3 (not natural or strong) as the contact point for the whole mouse control guide and grip.
3 - The small finger has nowhere to go because the 3rd finger is scrunched trying to position it precisely. If you do get both on the panel, the small finger ends up underneath and curved even farther under than the third. (try putting your hand in that shape, not good huh? then game for 2 hours)
Because of the push up/dive down body counter angles the mouse (and my hand) feels unnaturally twisted but there is only my palm left to try correct it...its not comfortable doing that either.
WHY IS GRIP IMPORTANT?
Gaming is not just moving the pointer side to side, its just as important to pick the mouse up to center it while you do things like run or turn. I may need this several times a minute so having a G700 shape that forces the left fingers down and the thumb up into the buttons on each readjust is a FAIL for gaming. Completely.
Compare to the 518. The thumb area is a nice flat panel allowing movement and contact where you need it, theres a tiny curve lip but it doesnt cause a problem. The ridge for the third finger is so important, as well as being able to pick it up with thumb and third alone, it also leaves the side panel clear for the small finger, again a flat panel that doesnt try and force you off the grip. If necessary i can lift it with thumb and third, or thumb and small, or all 3.
However the G700 is so uncomfortable for gaming im really frustrated with it. I can feel the stress in my tendons trying to keep my fingers on the side, with the thumb having nowhere it feels at home. The fingers are twisted and the point of contact with the body to lift it is the middle of finger 3. Trying to fingertip grip with finger 3 and lift it twists the mouse away because of these totally useless but sexy looking curves. Unconciously I push my small finger tight up against the middle of finger 3 to give it more grip against the unforgiving curved surface while my thumb twists itself down searching for grip on the curvy wall under the buttons.
Overall this is a recipe for RSI/CTS (repetitive strain injury/carpal tunnel syndrome) if people are using this over any period of gaming. Who on earth is this body designed for? Did R&D even test it with FPS gamers older that 14? I have a medium to large hand, this would be a better mouse if i was a girl, or a 14yo.
As if that wasnt enough its so heavy with the battery the back end tries to drop back to the table on lifts. Gripping one part of the curve each side acts like a pivot rather than having a flat area each side to actually control the length as well as the height on lifting.
I cannot see a solution. There is no other mouse that has as many buttons. Its too late to take it back to the shop. Im thoroughly disheartened since now going back to the MX would mean an improvement in control, but i have to give up the new buttons i needed. Sad face whatever happens.
I thought ok, lets mod it - cut off the curvy flap on the left (its functionally useless) and fill it with something making a flat area where the thumb can grip the body, away from the buttons, except theyve put a glide pad on the bottom of the lip meaning i cant even do that. Then the right needs a finger panel the length of the mouse added so both fingers dont curl under but have somewhere to brace against helping hand tendons not strain to control the mouse in even non gaming use. Does anyone make custom mouse bodies?
Sorry Logitech, you have seriously dropped the ball on this one. The software works well, electrically its a fine device, the extra buttons was my real wish, but the poor ergonomics means i have now wasted a good chunk of money on this. The only way to rescue it would be to create an add on body, but im sure you are selling too many on the basis of its good looks to need to bother with that.
A previously happy customer feeling ambushed by slick looks and marketing
09-07-2011 02:54 PM - edited 09-07-2011 02:58 PM
i found this mouse uncomfortable as well.
had muscle problem after few hours usage.
then i found out that my mouse was having problem.. unless mouse has to be held in certain angle =/
maybe i was unknowingly twisting my arm/hand to correct above problem (see link)
ill be getting replacement soon, hopefully its just the mouse problem.
09-08-2011 05:11 PM
09-10-2011 07:37 AM
I can understand the original poster's draw toward the G700. Right now it is the only 'gaming' wireless mouse that Logitech offers. I wish they would bring back the G7, or release a new version based on that. It had a much better shape.
09-22-2011 01:44 AM - edited 10-01-2011 07:44 AM
Funnily enough I bought a G500 (since this G700 is such a fail for gaming). I missed trying it since the MX lasted so long (that and they were only 36 delivered from currys) so here it is on my desk, alongside the G700 and the MX. These are my thoughts.
- Its cheap feeling. Plasticy.
- theres already a - MAJOR - problem with the cheapass plastic infinite scroll being unbalanced. Im going to have to RMA it because of this. One part of the wheel is heavier than the rest, meaning if i scroll up a few lines then let go the stupid thing scrolls back to where it was.
Putting the scroll in any position other than the bottom of its balance means even if its half caught and i move the mouse slightly, it then again scrolls back till the heavy bit of the wheel is at the bottom, this is VERY frustrating. Imagine pulling a link into view then going to click it while it zooms back off the screen. I have various applications that I find have suddenly changed settings because it happened to be in focus when the wheel decided to settle and i didnt notice.
- its already starting off down the road of sexy looking but horrible to grip curves, theyve started to attack the RHS of the mouse and drop the contact surface away, but its still closer in size to the MX for it to be annoying rather than painful.
- there is no DPI toggle in setpoint, only Inc/Dec, despite the system of setting points being the same as the G700, WTH logitech?
- personal need- its 1 button short for what i wanted. My game is changing and i need the scroll back.
The only answer is to take a MX518 shell (which logitech all but admit was their finest mouse by bringing it back as a G400) and fit it over a G700 body, except keep the same style of side button as the MX (shrink and add 2 more in a line, not a cluster). I wont hold my breath waiting however. Seems sales are more about how cool it looks and far less about how tense your hand has to be to control it correctly.
03-03-2012 07:25 AM
It sounds like you are resting your hand on top of the mouse. If I try that, I experience exactly what you describe.
I rest the wrist on the mat behind the mouse, and then everything fits perfectly. If you don't like to do that, the mouse will of course not fit for you.
03-30-2013 09:59 PM - edited 03-30-2013 10:04 PM
Not really, I like my mouse to glide under my hand when I move and other times if I need to pick it up to recenter without moving the pointer then it should be easy to grip and hold flat in transit, be balanced in weight and set down at exactly the same angle it was lifted from.
The MX did this flawlessly, the G700 fails completely, on set down its heel kicks out and likes to nestle in the bottom right of my palm making it off angle and causing my 2 outermost fingers to curve and strain on my wrist mustles to keep it straight and under control.
In desktop use I find myself pressing my thumb against what little area on that curved bank there is at its center of gravity and kicking the heel right out to my outer fingers so they are in control too (not straining to contain) meaning its always at ~20 degree angle in my hand. Pick and place operations are far easier and despite the back weight dragging it bum down its usable like this.
For gaming use its a different story, I have developed a style where I dont use the keyboard much and rely much more on my loadouts being on my mouse buttons therefore I need a mouse with as many as I can get, but in discreet sets (not like the mass button pad MMO type, good for MMO, terrible mice as mice usually) which I can assign as I wish. To control the rear buttons in game I can only do that in a gaming grip and thats when it performs as in my original post. After nearly 2 years its still the most uncomfortable mouse ive ever used, but what can I do?
Good peripherals are few and far between and whenever I see a pc shop I always go and shake hands with their mice, still yet to find a replacement which has as many buttons, with a constant scroll (important) so i continue put up with the most badly designed mouse in the world, for my hand at least.
03-31-2013 09:51 AM - edited 03-31-2013 09:56 AM
It seems to me that all of your complaints are based on fit....personal ergonomics. I myself have recently acquired the G700. One attribute that swayed me was the shape and fit. It fits my hand perfectly, just like all of my previous similarly shaped Logitech mice. Some of the buttons are a bit awkwardly placed, but I can live with that. The software is a bit buggy and there is no G700 specific documentation (after almost 3 yrs.!), but I think I can make this mouse work for leisure, gaming and productivity. And I find the ergonomics perfect...for me. I'm sure there are others who appreciate it as well.
Judging by your post, however, the G700 is the worse mouse ever simply because it doesn't fit your hand as you would prefer. Unfortunately for all of us, there is no 'one size fits all' solution. Looks like you'll be hunting for a new mouse. I often visit a brick and mortar to try an item out before I order. I also make sure I order from online vendors who have an accommodating return policy.
Nice post, and well written. However, condemning the G700 as a bad mouse simply because it doesn't fit your hand is like saying a particular car model is is bad for driving because the seat isn't comfy. For you.