Hello,
I've recently bought one of these mice and, surprise-surprise, here I am searching the Net for "logitech mx revolution stuttering"
Anyway, I think we should try and more accurately pinpoint the problem, especially since Logitech seems to not acknowledge it and only deals with individual cases. Maybe that way we can write a guide with troubleshooting and workarounds for the ones that still have the issue after 3 replacements...
Frankly, if this were any other product I wouldn't hesitate to dump it and buy something else, however for me the mouse truly is revolutionary -- I can't use a "normal" one without missing it anymore, it's like the difference between having a scroll wheel and not. That's why this problem is even more frustrating, the device would've been perfect but the lag problem can render it unusable!
So, I'll start by summarizing what we know so far:
1. The problem seems to affect MX Revolution mice, although some people report issues with other models as well, most agree that previous models work perfectly in the same environment. I can concur this is the case, I have an older MX1000 that works flawlessly.
2. Drivers/Operating system are not involved. I use both VistaUltimate x64 and Ubuntu Linux x64 and the mouse behaves absolutely the same. However, this does not preclude an issue with software settings! What I mean by that -- this is the first mouse I know of that is actually bi-directional, in that it can receive commands from the computer. It also stores settings and configuration in on-board memory (I have tested this). Therefore, a particular setting modified by SetPoint in Win will still be active in Linux after a cold boot -- so this leaves open an avenue of research.
3. The most obvious cause: interference. I must admit I was somewhat apprehensive when I saw the mouse operated in the 2.4Ghz spectrum. I still do not understand why they did this -- previous wireless mice used the 27Mhz band if I am not mistaken, and while I can see the advantage of cheaper components (since everything is 2.4Ghz these days) and marketing alure, it clearly has the disadvantage of the far more crowded band. Alas, previous bluetooth models exist that operate in the same range -- I even used one made by Acer for a little while -- that don't have any lag/stuttering issue. The problem becomes even more complicated:
a) some people have Wi-Fi, others don't, some even turned off their AP to test; however, this misses something that is out of our control -- *other* Wi-Fi AP's in the vicinity! In my case, there are at least 3 networks I can connect to besides my own, not to mention other devices in the 2.4Ghz spectrum that are not Wi-Fi (long-range radios, microwaves, etc.). So if the mouse is in fact susceptible to interference, all of these could cause it and there is no good way to test unless we use a spectrum analyzer, but they are expensive specialized tools that few people have access to. Let's also not forget all the little bluetooth devices we may have around -- I have a laptop with BT, wireless headsets and a mobile phone but those are usually turned off. The computer with the mouse also has a BT dongle which is passive most of the time (also tested with it removed, and it doesn't influence anything).
b) there are other potential sources of radio interference, from devices that do not operate in 2.4Ghz -- in my case, there are two mobile phones (GSM), a wireless Microsoft keyboard (not 2.4) with it's own dongle and a DECT "fixed" phone. As in the previous case, neighbourhood devices may also interfere and we have no control/information over those.
c) we should not forget all the devices *inside* the computer that can cause interference. Some people have actually noted that high CPU loads can lead to stuttering -- albeit that can be caused by the OS not being able to cope. I can not reproduce that, but that doesn't mean anything -- there simply might be another device causing this, like the GPU, HDD, sound card or even power supply.
==> What I think is strange with all the interference discussion is that even the proposed workaround (because it is *not* a solution) of bringing the receiver close to the mouse does not solve it, it's more like 50/50, for some it works, for others not. So it is important to investigate other potential causes as well.
4. Other than the above, there may also be a hardware/firmware problem with the mouse. I for one have noticed a relation between stuttering and the mouse being "asleep" for a while -- for example, after long periods of typing without touching the mouse; however, it is not reproducible, it only seems to happen *more* in that case, but it still happens when the mouse is "hot".
All-in-all, the problem happens much too randomly to be easily diagnosed... Too bad Logitech doesn't want to work with the community to solve this -- it is no use to exchange 3 mice just to find out the problem persists, which has happened more than once. Still, maybe we can work without them and find out what happens
Best regards and keep tight,
Mihnea
Message Edited by mgc8 on 07-22-2008 06:19 AM
I've recently bought one of these mice and, surprise-surprise, here I am searching the Net for "logitech mx revolution stuttering"
Anyway, I think we should try and more accurately pinpoint the problem, especially since Logitech seems to not acknowledge it and only deals with individual cases. Maybe that way we can write a guide with troubleshooting and workarounds for the ones that still have the issue after 3 replacements...
Frankly, if this were any other product I wouldn't hesitate to dump it and buy something else, however for me the mouse truly is revolutionary -- I can't use a "normal" one without missing it anymore, it's like the difference between having a scroll wheel and not. That's why this problem is even more frustrating, the device would've been perfect but the lag problem can render it unusable!
So, I'll start by summarizing what we know so far:
1. The problem seems to affect MX Revolution mice, although some people report issues with other models as well, most agree that previous models work perfectly in the same environment. I can concur this is the case, I have an older MX1000 that works flawlessly.
2. Drivers/Operating system are not involved. I use both VistaUltimate x64 and Ubuntu Linux x64 and the mouse behaves absolutely the same. However, this does not preclude an issue with software settings! What I mean by that -- this is the first mouse I know of that is actually bi-directional, in that it can receive commands from the computer. It also stores settings and configuration in on-board memory (I have tested this). Therefore, a particular setting modified by SetPoint in Win will still be active in Linux after a cold boot -- so this leaves open an avenue of research.
3. The most obvious cause: interference. I must admit I was somewhat apprehensive when I saw the mouse operated in the 2.4Ghz spectrum. I still do not understand why they did this -- previous wireless mice used the 27Mhz band if I am not mistaken, and while I can see the advantage of cheaper components (since everything is 2.4Ghz these days) and marketing alure, it clearly has the disadvantage of the far more crowded band. Alas, previous bluetooth models exist that operate in the same range -- I even used one made by Acer for a little while -- that don't have any lag/stuttering issue. The problem becomes even more complicated:
a) some people have Wi-Fi, others don't, some even turned off their AP to test; however, this misses something that is out of our control -- *other* Wi-Fi AP's in the vicinity! In my case, there are at least 3 networks I can connect to besides my own, not to mention other devices in the 2.4Ghz spectrum that are not Wi-Fi (long-range radios, microwaves, etc.). So if the mouse is in fact susceptible to interference, all of these could cause it and there is no good way to test unless we use a spectrum analyzer, but they are expensive specialized tools that few people have access to. Let's also not forget all the little bluetooth devices we may have around -- I have a laptop with BT, wireless headsets and a mobile phone but those are usually turned off. The computer with the mouse also has a BT dongle which is passive most of the time (also tested with it removed, and it doesn't influence anything).
b) there are other potential sources of radio interference, from devices that do not operate in 2.4Ghz -- in my case, there are two mobile phones (GSM), a wireless Microsoft keyboard (not 2.4) with it's own dongle and a DECT "fixed" phone. As in the previous case, neighbourhood devices may also interfere and we have no control/information over those.
c) we should not forget all the devices *inside* the computer that can cause interference. Some people have actually noted that high CPU loads can lead to stuttering -- albeit that can be caused by the OS not being able to cope. I can not reproduce that, but that doesn't mean anything -- there simply might be another device causing this, like the GPU, HDD, sound card or even power supply.
==> What I think is strange with all the interference discussion is that even the proposed workaround (because it is *not* a solution) of bringing the receiver close to the mouse does not solve it, it's more like 50/50, for some it works, for others not. So it is important to investigate other potential causes as well.
4. Other than the above, there may also be a hardware/firmware problem with the mouse. I for one have noticed a relation between stuttering and the mouse being "asleep" for a while -- for example, after long periods of typing without touching the mouse; however, it is not reproducible, it only seems to happen *more* in that case, but it still happens when the mouse is "hot".
All-in-all, the problem happens much too randomly to be easily diagnosed... Too bad Logitech doesn't want to work with the community to solve this -- it is no use to exchange 3 mice just to find out the problem persists, which has happened more than once. Still, maybe we can work without them and find out what happens
Best regards and keep tight,
Mihnea
Message Edited by mgc8 on 07-22-2008 06:19 AM
