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Yeti_SF
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎01-16-2012

Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

Motherboard: Asus P8Z68-V/GEN3
Keyboard: K350
Trackball: M570
USB 3.0 devices include a flash drive and an external hard drive (both tested with, but only one at a time)
Also used a USB 2.0 flash drive for testing
System has USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports on both the front (from motherboard headers) and rear of the system

When I plug the Unifying Receiver into a USB 2.0 port on the front of the system, it works fine.  If I then plug a USB 3.0 device into the front of the system, the Unifying Receiver stops working (both mouse and keyboard), but the USB 3.0 device works fine.  If a different USB 2.0 device is plugged in instead, it works fine in conjunction with the USB 3.0 device.

The same happens using the system's rear ports - USB 2.0 device work fine, USB 3.0 devices work fine, other USB 2.0 device work fine in conjunction with the USB 3.0 device, but the Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in.

So...
A) It's always the Unifying Receiver that stops working.  The USB 3.0 device works fine.
B) To use both a USB 3.0 device and the Unifying Receiver I have to plug them in "far" from each other - one in the front of the case and one in the back.
C) Other devices and combinations make no difference.  It's only with the Unifying Receiver plugged in that anything stops working, and when anything fails, it's always the Unifying Receiver that dies.

MichaelKenward
Posts: 4,814
Topics: 16
Solutions: 226
Registered: ‎01-21-2007

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

No advice, beyond saying that my Asus motherboard has USB 3. I also have a PCI-e card with extra USB3. (None from headers on the MB.)

 

And I don't see any behaviour like this.

 

Plugging into USB ports does not interfere with the Unifying receiver.

 

What if you plug the receiver into a USB3 port?

 

Does everything look right in Device Manager?

 

Have you applied the USB3 updates for this board?

 

 

__________
MK
Just another customer with time on their hands.

M570, Cordless Trackball | Cordless Trackman Wheel | T650 Touchpad
K800, K360, K340 keyboards
QuickCam Pro 9000 | H600 headset
SetPoint: 6.61.15 | Driver version: 5.60.73 | LWS 2.31
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit & 32-bit | Windows 8.1 Update

If you find a solution to your problem, mark it as "solved". This assists people who are looking for help with their problems.

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Yeti_SF
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎01-16-2012

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

[ Edited ]

Thank you for your response and suggestions!

Yep, I have the ASMedia USB 3.0 driver from the Asus site installed.
Everything is happy in Device Manager.
Plugging the Unifying Receiver into the USB 3.0 jack and the flash drive into the USB 2.0 port (or both into USB 2.0 ports) works fine.

Then I had what I thought was a really bright idea: Eliminate all drivers and O/S related issues by checking things right in the BIOS.  I figured that would narrow things down pretty much to my motherboard or the Logitech hardware.

At first it seemed like nothing was different.  Plug in the Unifying Receiver, power up and enter the UEFI BIOS, and keyboard and mouse are working fine.  Plug the flash drive into the USB 3.0 port next to the Unifying Receiver, and suddenly the Keyboard and Mouse went dead.

After playing for a bit I noticed something interesting though...  Even when the keyboard and mouse weren't working, they still showed as being there, both as reported by the old style BIOS POST test, and in the newer UEFI BIOS configuration screens.

Now I had previously found that the front USB port worked more reliably with the Unifying Receiver (seems to have a really short range)...  So I moved the Mouse down to RIGHT next to the receiver, and it was working fine.  I had to get it within just a few INCHES for it to work though.  If I run a USB extender cable up so the receiver is on the desktop and has clear line of sight I can back up over 10 FEET and my mouse still works.  I found similar behavior with the keyboard, but even more so in that I had to find the right part of the keyboard to get within a few inches of the receiver.

So it appears that having the USB 3.0 port communicating with a device wrecks havoc with the Unifying Receiver.  Same device in a USB 2.0 port and it's fine, but have that USB 3.0 frequency communication going on next to the Unifying Receiver and its effect range is reduced to less than 6 inches.

Logi Nu
Barwickgreen
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-13-2012

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

[ Edited ]

I have exactly the same problem with an Asus P9X79 Motherboard and Windws 7 64 Bit.

As you say, everything is fine but if I plug in a USB3 device to one of the USB3 sockets, the unifying receiver stops working. All other USB devices are fine, it's just the unifying receiver that stops. As soon as I unplug the USB3 device the unifyirng receiver works again. All drivers up to date and no error messages anywhere.

 

I tried Yeti-SF's solution of putting the unifying receiver on an extension lead so it is well away from any USB 3 sockets, cables or devices and it does seem to work, which is great so thanks for the tip - but clearly there's a real interference issue here.

@BarwickGreen
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bearfight
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎09-22-2012

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

After some searching I was able to get to the bottom of this; unfortunately there's no real fix.  It isn't Logitech's fault either...  Unfortunately the lag is an unintended side effect of the normal operation of USB 3.0 devices.  Your best bet is to move the receiver to a USB 2.0 port on the opposite side of the PC.  If this doesn't clear things up you will need to use a USB extension to move the receiver farther away from the USB 3.0 device.  Failing that, the only other option is to use a wired mouse.  If you're interested in why keep on reading.  It won't make you any happier about the situation, but at least you'll be able to complain intelligently... :smileyvery-happy:

 

Most wireless networks and mice, including the Unifying Receiver, communicate at a frequency of 2.4GHz.  When powered, a USB 3.0 HDD or flash drive will generate significant broadband interference around the 2.4GHz band, as part of it's normal operation.  This severely reduces the range of any mouse receiver or wireless network adapter in close proximity to the USB 3.0 device, resulting in spotty performance and intermittent disconnects.  Bluetooth is also affected to an extent.  This is why moving the receiver away helps.  Intel put an impressive lab together and got it all figured out, releasing a whitepaper in April 2012 that explains everything.  If you really want to understand this, it's a must read; I'll link it at the bottom.

 

Bottom line: the only REAL solution is more shielding for both the USB ports and the USB 3.0 devices; meaning manufacturers can retrofit their products and hopefully squash this rather large bug for the next hardware cycle.  If you read the Intel report you will see that both motherboard makers and usb device makers will have to add shielding.  Just one or the other isn't always effective.  We owners of existing, unshielded devices are pretty much up a creek, sans paddle. 

 

The only save I can hope for is a Unifying Receiver running at 5.0 GHz, putting it well outside the interference. Any chance, Logitech?  Would love to hear a Logi rep's thoughts!

 

-Dave

 

 

Here's a link to the 4/2012 Intel report on USB 3.0 interference.  All the info in this post was derived from this:

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/usb3-frequency-interference...

MichaelKenward
Posts: 4,814
Topics: 16
Solutions: 226
Registered: ‎01-21-2007

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

Wow. That is an excellent find.

 

Now we just have to remember to ask people about their USB3 devices when they raise questions here about "jerky" devices.

 

 

__________
MK
Just another customer with time on their hands.

M570, Cordless Trackball | Cordless Trackman Wheel | T650 Touchpad
K800, K360, K340 keyboards
QuickCam Pro 9000 | H600 headset
SetPoint: 6.61.15 | Driver version: 5.60.73 | LWS 2.31
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit & 32-bit | Windows 8.1 Update

If you find a solution to your problem, mark it as "solved". This assists people who are looking for help with their problems.

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BrianRaub
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-28-2012

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

Is it the 3.0 device that must be separated from the unifying receiver, or the 3.0 cable and plug?

MichaelKenward
Posts: 4,814
Topics: 16
Solutions: 226
Registered: ‎01-21-2007

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

If you read the Intel paper referred to earlier, it describes how they tested things. That might answer your question.

 

They went as far as wrapping hard disks in metal foil.

 

 

 

__________
MK
Just another customer with time on their hands.

M570, Cordless Trackball | Cordless Trackman Wheel | T650 Touchpad
K800, K360, K340 keyboards
QuickCam Pro 9000 | H600 headset
SetPoint: 6.61.15 | Driver version: 5.60.73 | LWS 2.31
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit & 32-bit | Windows 8.1 Update

If you find a solution to your problem, mark it as "solved". This assists people who are looking for help with their problems.

Logi Nu
Robyncatwoman
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎02-01-2013

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

I have the same problem. I have a Dell Inspiron All-in-one with wireless mouse and keyboard. I just bought a Backup Plus. When I plugged it in above the receiver the mouse wouldn't work, though the keybard, which is a bit closer, still worked. (No Logitech devices, just googled to try to find an answer to this conundrum.). I moved the Backup Plus to the side port and all is fine, just annoying since I would rather leave the side ones free for things I plug in and eject more often. The back ones are a bit awkward to get to; need a mirror. If I move the computer, the power plug pulls out.
It seems that the USB pluga and cables for the other devices should be shielded.

MichaelKenward
Posts: 4,814
Topics: 16
Solutions: 226
Registered: ‎01-21-2007

Re: Unifying Receiver stops working when a USB 3.0 device is plugged in

Have you tried an extension cable? I use these to connect stuff to these fiddly back ports.

 

 

 

__________
MK
Just another customer with time on their hands.

M570, Cordless Trackball | Cordless Trackman Wheel | T650 Touchpad
K800, K360, K340 keyboards
QuickCam Pro 9000 | H600 headset
SetPoint: 6.61.15 | Driver version: 5.60.73 | LWS 2.31
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit & 32-bit | Windows 8.1 Update

If you find a solution to your problem, mark it as "solved". This assists people who are looking for help with their problems.