PC Gaming

[MasterTec]

On a good note, I remove the base of my rudder pedals just to have a look-see and I am happy to report that there is no circuit board or chip installed in the pedals assembly.  This means that the nine-pin plug simply connects the circuits of the three pots to the stick.

Because of this, it should be very easy to take a nine-pin (female) serial cable and splice its nine wires onto a separate controller board (or even the controller of a spare three-axis joystick that may be laying around).  Also because of this, no modifications to the pedals themselves will be required.

So what does all this mean, really?

IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET RID OF THE REVERSAL BUG IN THE RUDDER PEDALS WITHOUT MODIFYING THE PEDALS THEMSELVES!

So if/when Logitech does get around to fixing things properly, then it's a simple matter of plugging the pedals back into the base of the stick!

While it's possible to do these modifications to the throttle as well, this requires doing so modification to its wiring inside of the unit (still reversable, but not without at least removing the base).

Also, while the modification is in use, it cannot be programmed with the logitech software.  Since I have most of my throttle's buttons programmed through the software I would lose that if I modified the throttle separately, but since my rudders have no software programming then I would have nothing to lose by running the rudders through a separate controller.

Also the reversal bug in the throttle, while being more pronounced, is less of a hinderance than the reversal bug in the rudder.

[HammerTime]

Hoping some new

[F19_Klunk]

just an input

As a valid flightsimmer I know of at least a dozen people in my close community who have chosen other HOTAS solution even though we/they aimed for the G940 in the beginning. all of them more expensive ones, because of this bug and the silence from Logitech... we/they have not clue wether Logi plan to do anything about it. 

poor communication and bad support will/have cost logitech many many MANY sales 

The only marketing that counts when it comes to this market is testimonials and word of mouth... and this HOTAS has already a poor image...unfortuntely

[spitfire_ch]

F19_Klunk, put this feedback in the following board:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Share-Your-Thoughts/bd-p/shareyourthoughts

That one is at least read by Logitech folks. I am wondering, too, if there will ever be a new profiler version or firmware for the G940. It's been a while ago since the last release ...

Regards - spitfire

[mustang137]

How about someone from Logitech make a response here??!!

[Dimebag**]

There are 3 reasons why there is radio silence at the moment: 1). Charles and the engineering team are hard at work on the new logitech software release, which includes a new firmware to fix the rest of the reversal bug on the rest of the axes, and we should expect to hear something soon. 2). Charles is currently locked in arguments with the 'powers that be' trying to get it through thick skulls that squashing this bug is good for both controller performance, and controller reputation within the simming community, and therefore will likely the revenue making potential of this setup, possibly allowing them to recoup some of their costs. We may not hear anything for some time, and if Charles fails it will likely get swept under the carpet with all the other failed product lines from logitech. 3). Charles has failed to convince the powers that be that investing a bit of time squashing this bug is of any merit. Expect avoidance tactics or complete radio silence. What really gets me is that if logitech had followed correct product designing features, and maybe employed a human factors specialist, they would have realized through pretty basic front-end analysis which would have identified their potential user base, and what we expect from a flight control setup as far as performance goes, and most likely would have avoided this glaring design flaw, maybe averted some pointless RMA's, and made this product the flagship flight setup that logitech had the potential to make. Wake up logitech suits- realise that it is the users who you must please.

[HammerTime]

Read this:

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Share-Your-Thoughts/Suggestions-for-G940-and-Logitech-Profiler-Softwar...

[Dimebag**]

Okay, I assume you are reffering me to the post of antons stating that logitech does not disclose information about future products and software. Luckily for us there is atleast one person who is at times willing to keep us in the loop.it's simple... Every now and then you throw the dogs a bone to chew on till it's dinner time, we can gnaw on these metaphorical bones for months if necessary. Just don't be surprised if the dog has dug a hole under the fence and you can't get it back when you stop feeding us info. We're a hungry bunch.

[MasterTec]

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Dimebag** wrote:
1). Charles and the engineering team are hard at work on the new logitech software release, which includes a new firmware to fix the rest of the reversal bug on the rest of the axes, and we should expect to hear something soon.

As far as I am concerned, if this is the case then Charles needs to come on here personally and mention it.

2). Charles is currently locked in arguments with the 'powers that be' trying to get it through thick skulls that squashing this bug is good for both controller performance, and controller reputation within the simming community, and therefore will likely the revenue making potential of this setup, possibly allowing them to recoup some of their costs. We may not hear anything for some time, and if Charles fails it will likely get swept under the carpet with all the other failed product lines from logitech.

I'm not blaming Charles here.  I'm sure he's doing the best that he can with what he has to work with.  However, I am getting sick and tired of hearing those words, "powers that be".  Personally, if they really ARE this thick skulled and despite PAGES UPON PAGES of complaints, arguments, PROOF OF THE FLAWS, and customer service trouble tickets... and despite HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of lost sales due to this bad reputation spreading around among the hardcore flight sim community (I personally know about 40 people now that decided NOT to buy one) then it's very obvious that Logitech needs to do some serious "spring cleaning" regarding their management teams if you know what I mean.

3). Charles has failed to convince the powers that be that investing a bit of time squashing this bug is of any merit. Expect avoidance tactics or complete radio silence. What really gets me is that if logitech had followed correct product designing features, and maybe employed a human factors specialist, they would have realized through pretty basic front-end analysis which would have identified their potential user base, and what we expect from a flight control setup as far as performance goes, and most likely would have avoided this glaring design flaw, maybe averted some pointless RMA's, and made this product the flagship flight setup that logitech had the potential to make. Wake up logitech suits- realise that it is the users who you must please.

I would LOVE to see the numbers regarding this.  I know lost sales can't really be reliably measured, but if nothing else I'd LOVE to see the percentage of GOOD RMA'd units vs. BAD RMA'd units.  I bet it's easily 75%/25% (meaning that 75% of the units that are returned have absolutely nothing wrong with them), and I would think it would actually be much higher than that if it wasn't for the known wire routing issue in the throttle.  For every 'perfectly good' unit that Logitech gets back, they lost money because they have to replace it with either a brand new replacement unit or refund the money to the customer.  I suppose they could test those and send back refurbished units instead, but I'd personally be pretty angry to send in a week old unit to get a six month old unit back.

I am REALLY, *REALLY* surprised that we aren't reading about a whole bunch of legal action taking place here.  I know people who would gladly sue over much, much less serious problems...

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[Dimebag**]

While we wait I thought I'd do some research on previous software releases of lgs. 5.08 was released some time in september 2009. 5.09 was released 18/5/2010, that's roughly 8 months between releases. 5.10 doesn't really count as it didn't have any changes from 5.09. If we use the 8 month rule from may last year, that means we would have expected a release some time around January this year, which has not happened. So we are now nearing April, which gives us nearly 11 months between releases if we get it this month. Now this long development period leads me to believe we should expect atleast a few new features for the profiler. I'm hoping we might see some kind of native throttle LED support, and maybe even the ability to create led profiles for different games. Additionally I'm hoping the reversal bug is also in their sights. Additional programming features would be the icing on the cake, and these features might just make waiting for the software release worthwile. If we don't see any of these then we have effectively wasted a year of our lives waiting, which I think is substantial. Please don't let us down logitech, we have several new simulators which have just been released which should spur sales of more g940 units. Don't let this opportunity go or you may never get another.