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Logi Rook
RishiGuru
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

[ Edited ]

If your primary use is to listen to music i will suggest you to stick with 2.1 speaker systems. 5.1 & 7.1 systems produce surround sound and are fit for movies where as all songs are compiled in stereo.

 

My choice will be the Z-2300 followed by Z-623.

 

 

Logi Rook
RishiGuru
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

[ Edited ]

2.jpg

Some misconceptions about the Z-2300's satellites:

 

Z-2300 uses a very special 2.5 inch driver in the satellites namely, polished aluminium phase plug drivers which focuses the acoustic energy or sound emitting from the drivers and project it to the listeners ears. It is like a very highly focused projectile of sound waves hitting your ears. This is done so that the user can hear every minute detail of the sound.

 

So even at very low volume i being seated in front of the computer desk, really feel immersed in the sound and also able to hear every minute detail of a complicated music composition. But when i crank up the volume the highly focused beam of sound becomes to much for my ears.

 

Also the angle of the satellites cannot be changed since THX states that all the finer details of the sound must reach the listeners ears. In other words, the Z-2300's satellites have unidirectional characteristics and is absolutely opposite to surround sound. Theoretically this is perfect since a 2.1 is not designed to produce surround sound.  

 

Another misconception is that the system have no midbass i.e. 150 - 200 Hz frequency range is absent as well as higher frequencies. Well it produces midbass & high frequencies but it is less than say my Altec Lansing MX-6021. The day i bought the Z-2300 and plugged it into my computer, i immediately noticed a kind of mushy sound and was sorely disappointed.

 

Later, i discovered it was because my ears was habituated in hearing the high frequency bacon frying sounds or the amplified over exaggerated high frequency sound of my MX-6021. People normally perceive this bacon frying sounds as the clarity of the sound system which in reality, i am sorry to say in not the case because they over exaggerated sound and not the real sound. And also in the quest of perceived clarity as in the case of MX-6021 my ears are not able to pick up some finer details of a complicated music. 

 

After using the Z-2300 for about a week my ears got settled to its sound characteristics and i was able to hear much more finer detailing in the upper ranges of the frequency spectrum that my MX-6021 was not able to produce with its perceived unreal clarity. I was amazed and thoroughly thanked the Logitech engineers in my mind who did not go after unreal sound which have perceived clarity but after real sound. That the reason why Z-2300 have THX certification which MX-6021 does not have. Remember though both units costs the same.

 

Regarding use of woofers and tweeters in the satellites, it would definitely increased the cost of production but none the less the 150 Hz crossover frequency could have been avoided. Actually i believe the Z-2300's subwoofer paired with Z- Cinema's satellites with separate midrange & tweeters would have produced the ultimate Logitech 2.1 speaker system.

 

But anyway i am really happy with the sound quality of my Z-2300 because no other manufacturer can provide what Logitech is providing at this price range. 

Logi Apprentice
zcinema123
Posts: 210
Registered: ‎05-28-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

@RishiGuru:

 

Have you tried pairing MX6021 satellites to Z2300 subwoofer? Cause I know MX6021 subwoofer is no match compared to Z2300.

Logi Rook
RishiGuru
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

The ohm rating of the MX-6021 satellites are 4 ohms where as Z-2300 satellites are rated at 8 ohms.

Logi Apprentice
zcinema123
Posts: 210
Registered: ‎05-28-2010
0

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

i see, then it cannot be done...

Logi Rook
RishiGuru
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

[ Edited ]

Review of Altec Lansing MX-6021 and comparative analysis with the older MX-5021 & Logitech Z-2300

 

108832_intro.jpg

 

After long long time, Altec Lansing launched a new model for a powerful 200W RMS 2.1 system namely MX-6021. Going by what my MX5021 have accomplished, not to mention the mighty Logitech Z-2300 this new model, numbered MX6021, has a lot to prove. This one doesn't come with THX certification like the MX5021 or Z-2300, but has a name to go along with its model number; expressionist ULTRA. Something like the ultimate experience for a 2.1 computer speaker system, I suppose. Let's not waste much time on Altec Lansing's marketing gimmicks, time to see what's there for real. 

 

The expressionist ULTRA is a really modern looking speaker system. The speakers have a unique design. They can easily put anyone in awe of them. The expressionists ULTRA can easily standout on any desktop. Actually my Logitech Z-2300 looks like it belong to Stone Age against the MX6021. But looks can be deceiving. Let's now take a closer look at the design.

 

The satellite speakers have a frame for a face onto which the driver and the tweeter are attached. The frame is a transparent tinted plastic piece. This gives the impression that the satellites are just pieces of plastic suspended and producing sound. The driver has a nice aggressive look because of its cover. The enclosure has a plastic ring which surrounds the driver and it's finished with steel grey and thread work like a screw. The actual cover placed in front of the driver is fabric. The tweeter is left almost naked with just a cap over the cone. Turning around to see the rear of the satellites you can see the extension for the 3-inch drivers. It's a large enclosure and will help in the speaker reproducing good vocals. The satellites have rubber feet as well to hold them in place and these feet are neatly hidden though the rubber feet placed at the bottom end of the driver enclosure tends to fall of rather too easily.

 

One thing that caught my eye while unpacking the system was 132 W RMS of power is distributed to the satellites. If you consider the ratio of the power distribution to other systems of this segment you will find a stark ling difference

 

Logitech Z-2300 -> Subwoofer : Satellites :: 120W : 80W :: 3:2

Logitech Z-623 -> Subwoofer : Satellites :: 130W : 70W :: 13:7

Altec Lansing MX-5021 -> Subwoofer : Satellites :: 50W : 40W :: 5:4

 

where as

 

Altec Lansing MX-6021 -> Subwoofer : Satellites :: 68W : 132W :: 17:33

 

So. we see in the first three cases the subwoofer gets more power than two satellites, i.e. the low frequency response gets a higher precedence over the higher frequency. Amazingly these are all THX certified sets where as MX6021 have more power delivered to the satellites rather than the subwoofer and interestingly does possess have THX certification.

 

Coming to the sub-woofer, I found it to be rather too large. It is not something that is suitable for a PC desk. The sub-woofer too features the same design as the frame satellite speakers. Here, it's a whole body and makes it look like a miniature Mayan Temple. Matching the overall design, the sub-woofer houses a large 6.5-inch driver with the same driver cover and aggressive ring design. The space for the tweeter is replaced with an air-vent. The height of the sub-woofer is quite a bit as compared to those of most 2.1 systems around. At the rear, the sub-woofer has a Power ON/OFF switch. Inputs include just a single stereo cable, and outputs to the two satellite speakers. The last port at the rear is for the desktop controller.  The bass driver is much smaller than the 8 incher found in Z-2300 or 7 incher found in Z-623. But this is understandable since it has to handle only 68W where as in the case of Z-2300 its 120W.

 

The remote of the expressionist ULTRA follows with unique styling which we see with on speakers. The remote, in fact, is the coolest looking piece of the system. It is a desktop controller so it is a wired piece. Unfortunately, there isn't a wireless remote which, I feel, is odd, given the pricing of the system. Anyways, getting back to the controller, it is shaped like an inverted cone. The top isn't pointed but is sliced off to occupy few buttons. There is a Power ON/OFF button and there is also treble and Bass controls. These buttons are backlit and the backlighting is amber in color, which is pretty cool to look at. The entire cone turns left right to increase or decrease the volume. There is a volume notification which shows on the base of the controller. The volume notification has visualization like effects which is really cool to see in action. At first, I thought it was it worked in accordance of the audio track but then realized it was just some random sequence.

In addition, the control pod houses two 3.5mm ports; one for AUX input and a headphone port. It's a nice control pod and really adds to the essence of the expressionist ULTRA which is style.

 

Performance: The expressionist ULTRA was quite a surprise to say the least. I got chills just thinking about the bass this large sub-woofer could reproduce from its 6.5-inch driver. The expressionist ULTRA system produces really clean and clear audio. The tweeter and the driver of the satellites produce really high audio quality. The highs and the mids are really good. They are perfect for vocals and the shrill effects to freeze your tummy in a horror scene. 

The bass, on the other hand, was quite a disappointment. The expressionist ULTRA is quite a loud system. With 200 watts to release one can really pump up the volume. The speaker doesn't crack at high volumes. Instead, the bass is lost with the mids and the treble taking charge. The sub-woofer was seriously missing a punch. The Z-2300 has a much powerful bass or for that matter, even other serious 2.1 systems have really good bass as compared to the expressionist ULTRA. All-said-and-done, these speakers could have been so much better. Considering the fact that  the Z-2300 which is also cheaper, means that expressionist ULTRA doesn't have what it takes to become the class leader.

 

The sound coming out of the MX6021 does not seem real to me, sound like the highs have been over exaggerated where as the lows are completely missing at higher volumes and lacked the neutral, natural feeling sound found in Z-2300 which is so pleasant to listen to.

 

The subwoofer of Z-2300 lets itself be known with its slamming tight & precise bass which at times are powerful enough to knock the wind out of your lungs. The satellites of Z-2300 feature a nice, natural sound with excellent representation. If the user wants, they can boost the subwoofer levels through the roof though my ears will be bleeding by then.

 

With Z-2300 you get one of the best solutions for pure listening pleasure, with a clean sound devoid of any colorings, embellishment or ornamentation in the sound, commonly found in Altec Lansing MX6021. Now I can easily hear many of the previously obscure details in the compositions of a complicated music composition, and can clearly set apart all the instruments used in the music composition, thus I am able to focus not only on the primary instrument, which is audible, but also on the fact that what instrument I want to hear.

 

Verdict: The Altec Lansing expressionist ULTRA sell at a much higher price than Logitech Z-2300. The pricing of the system is quite high for a 2.1 system. Comparing it to the MX5021 and the Logitech Z2300, the expressionist ULTRA has the looks to go for. However, the performance of the expressionist ULTRA isn't at par to either the MX5021 or the Z2300. I would really suggest you to pick the Logitech Z2300 or Z-623. Both of these THX certified are great choices. If you are really interested in something that looks good or unique the Klipsch GMX-A is the better option as compared to the Altec Lansing expressionist ULTRA. 

 

The Altec Lansing expressionist ULTRA is not "All Show & No Go" for which it does deserve appreciation but when you are going to be spending this amount of money, it's got to be worth it completely. 

Logi Apprentice
zcinema123
Posts: 210
Registered: ‎05-28-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

klipsch gmx are excellent. i used to own it (A2.1) before upgrade to the iFi.

 

subwoofer is pretty efficient. using 6.5" driver and 50W of power, it can give serious boom, immediately pawn MX5021 with similar rating. however the subwoofer slot port are rather overported, it starts to breathe at 40hz in medium listening level. satellites are unique and replacable. midrange are just adequate, not rich. treble are quite good, leaving a 'bright' sound signature. very satisfied with this speaker and decided to upgrade to klipsch ifi. totally different sound impression and also listening distance. gmx is good for games, not music, while the ifi is vice-versa.

 

on the other hand, i love how the MX5021 looks, compared to the awkward MX6021. rather disappointing that newer MX5021 uses different cones and components compared to the first batch of MX5021. the older one will have circle lining on the subwoofer and satellites cone (as in the picture), while the newer one are just smooth. very difficult to get the first batch, i helped my friend bought the 'newer' MX5021. what a disappointment, the sound are less 'full' than the older one while the price remains. the satellites (even the new one) will leave it's predecessor ADA885 which happens to also carry the THX certification (which i don't care / need). unfortunately, the 60W dual voice-coil subwoofer of ADA885 can get much deeper bass than MX5021 and gmx. it's not louder, but rather deeper, measured by frequency test tones.

 

 

 

 

Logi Rook
RishiGuru
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

[ Edited ]

There is a common saying in this forum that Logitech Z-2300 produce maximum bass, even more than its monster big brother Z-5500. How? Here is how….

 

Logitech Z-2300

4778774_1218420.jpg

 

 

Logitech Z-5500

logitechz-5500.jpg

 

In general a 5.1 or a 7.1 system will produce significantly less bass response than a 2.1, provided all of them have same maximum power output. The subwoofer is dedicated to produce lower audio frequencies where as the satellites produce middle to higher audio frequencies. In other words the subwoofer produces bass where as the satellites produce vocal and treble.

 

Now if we look at the power distribution of Z-2300 & Z-5500

 

Z-2300 -> 200W RMS[Total] -> 120W [Subwoofer] : 80W[Satellites] :: 3:2

Z-5500-> 500W RMS [Total] -> 187W [Subwoofer] : 313W [Satellites] :: 11 : 18.4

 

Now, suppose if you are listening to both the systems at 100W RMS which is happens to be pretty loud,

 

Subwoofers will receive

 

Z-2300 -> {100/(3+2)} X 3 = 60W

Z-5500 -> {100/(11+18.4)} X 11 = 37.5W

 

The satellites will receive

 

Z-2300 -> 100 – 60 = 40W

Z-5500 -> 100 – 37.5 = 62.5W

 

So, at 100W the Z-2300 is supplying 60W of power to the subwoofer against mere 37.5W of Z-5500 and thus producing much deeper & pronounced bass response. Every song fells much more deeper, slamming & chest thumping in the case of Z-2300.

 

Where else Z-5500 at 100W will definitely have much more clearer vocal and treble responses against Z-2300 because 62.W of power is delivered through five satellite speakers where as only 40W is supplied to the two satellites of Z-2300.

 

Now consider the scenario at 200W RMS:

 

Subwoofers will receive

 

Z-2300 -> {200/(3+2)} X 3 = 120W

Z-5500 -> {200/(11+18.4)} X 11 = 75W

 

The satellites will receive

 

Z-2300 -> 200 – 120 = 80W

Z-5500 -> 200 – 75 = 125W

 

By this time your ears have already started bleeding [Z-2300 is producing 107dB] and you are slowly turning deaf and are no more capable to stay in the same room. At 200W RMS point too Z-2300 have the upper edge and produces more BASS is compare to Z-5500.

 

To rival the maximum bass of Z-2300, Z-5500 needs to pump out a minimum of 320W RMS. At that point Z-5500 will be producing

 

Subwoofer will receive

 

Z-5500 -> {320/(11+18.4)} X 11 = 120W [which rivals the 120W max of Z-2300 subwoofer]

 

The satellites will receive

 

Z-5500 -> 320 – 120 =200W

 

If you can sustain this 320W of power and still not deaf enough to hear, you can feel the monster Z-5500 takes the bass charge from Z-2300 from this point onwards [320W RMS] and goes beyond until it turns you completely deaf.

Logi Rook
RishiGuru
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-29-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

[ Edited ]

Comparative analysis between the amplifiers of Z-2300, Z-623  and Z-Cinema

 

Z-2300

logitech-z-2300.gif


Z-Cinema

0,1425,sz=1&i=177295,00.jpg

 

Audio design has always been a subject that stirs the passions of most electronics engineers and a subject where the pursuit of perfection has many times comes before considerations of cost. That aside sometimes the simplest circuits can offer the best solutions in terms of cost and performance.

 

Logitech Z-2300 Amplifier Innards

 

Z-2300-1.jpg

Z-2300 amplifier utilizes two fat Samxon 10,000 uF 35V capacitors for audio signal filtering. The size of the capacitors and their high farad value are really impressive.

 

Z-2300-3.jpg

Z-2300's four STMicroelectronics Class AB amplifiers in full glory. 

 

Z-2300-2.jpg

The two amplifiers at the extreme corner are STMicroelectronics TDA7296 powering each of the satellites. The middle two are STMicroelectronics TDA7295 bridged together powering the Z-2300 subwoofer.

 

Z-2300-4.jpg

The Z-2300 amplifiers are bolted to the enormous heat sink in the back.

 

Z-2300-5.jpg

All the wires are neatly tied and is a mark of neat engineering.

 

Z-2300.jpg

Z-2300 glorious toroidal transformer.

 

Logitech Z-2300 amplifier uses:

i) Two STMicroelectronics TDA7295 80 watts Class AB amplifiers bridged together to provide a total of 2 X 80W=160W for the subwoofer.                                                             

ii) Two STMicroelectronics TDA7296 60 watts Class AB amplifiers each powering one of the satellites.

 

Electric power is provided to the Z-2300’s amplifier using an expensive toroidal transformer & there is a huge heat sink at the back of the subwoofer to suck out the waste heat from the amplifier. All this adds up cost.

 

Logitech Z-Cinema Amplifier Innards


Logitech Z Cyclones internal switching power supply.jpg

Switching power supply used in Z-Cinema instead of majestic toroidal transformer as in Z-2300. Cheapish!!!

 

DSC02743.jpg

Z-Cinema only TDA7269 Class AB amplifier powering the tweeters is bolted to the small heat sink as above.

 

TDA8922BTH and TDA8920BTH used as a power amplifier.jpg

Z-Cinema two TDA8920 & TDA8922 Class D amplifiers powering the subwoofer & midrange speakers respectively.

 

Logitech Z-Cinema amplifier uses:

i)   One Philips TDA8920 100 watts Class D amplifier for the subwoofer.                                                             

ii)  One Philips TDA8922 50 watts Class D amplifier supplying 25W to each of the midrange speakers of the two satellites.

iii) One STMicroelectronics TDA7269 20 watts Class AB amplifier supplying 10W to each of the tweeters of the two satellites.

 

Electric power is provided to the Z-Cinema’s amplifier using switching power supply which is far less expensive than the toroidal transformer of Z-2300 and a small heat sink is provided for the 20W TDA7269 Class AB amplifier where as Class D amplifiers required no heat sink. This all saves cost and Logitech only provided Class AB for tweeters because in the year 2008, Class D amplifiers were not good enough to provide full frequency response of 20Hz-20Khz. This was the first time Logitech introduced cheap Class D amplifiers in their high end multimedia speaker system lineup.

 

Logitech Z-623 introduced in 2010 uses fully fledged Class D amplifier and are very cost effective to produce.

 

A quick look at many new low power speaker amplifiers on the market highlights the move to class D audio performance, but when it comes to low distortion and low noise and best sound quality, class AB still has the edge.

 

Class AB architecture offers a signal to noise plus distortion ratio of up to 10 times better than its equivalent Class D neighbour as well as providing a much simpler architecture which can be tweaked as required, without the need for reactive filter components on the output and the electromagnetic radiation resulting from an output stage switching at a few hundred kHz.

 

Class D amplification has inherent distortion in it and therefore is predominantly used in lower bandwidth amplification like in subwoofers. In other words it is quite impossible for a Class D to achieve the level of linearity in frequency response produced by a Class AB amplifier. Class D achieves about 90% power efficiency compared to about 60% respectively for Class AB. 

 

Ultimately it comes down to what you want, for efficiency and cost effectiveness Class D is best, but if you can sacrifice some efficiency & increase cost for the sake of sound quality then Class AB is the best.

 

In other words Class A amps sound the best, cost the most, and are the least practical. They waste power and return very clean signals. Class AB amps dominate the market and rival the best Class A amps in sound quality. They use less power than Class A, and can be cheaper, smaller, cooler, and lighter. Class D amps are even smaller than Class AB amps and more efficient, because they use high-speed switching rather than linear control.


The most important reason behind which multimedia speaker manufactures are switching from Class AB to Class D is to increase profit margin for the company. Class D is very cheap to produce and does not need require a big extruded aluminum heat sink or expensive toroidal transformers. They are basically switching power supplies but utilize pulse width modulation so as to be able to reproduce and amplify an alternating current. There ok for subwoofers, but I honestly think that it is ridiculous to use a class D amplifier in a high end studio monitor.

 

In short, Class D amps are more efficient but are only good for low frequencies applications like subwoofer amplification. Class AB amps are generally 30% less efficient but can be used full range amplification i.e from 20Hz – 20kHz.

 

Class D amps cannot be used on highs frequency response because of the way they work. They only produce square waves because of the technology involved, so they will make your highs sound lifeless and tinny. Class AB amplifiers produce full variable signals and can capture subtle nuances better and sound more warm and generally have more depth in sound.

Logi Apprentice
zcinema123
Posts: 210
Registered: ‎05-28-2010

Re: Logitech Z-2300 [ The Last of the Titans : Review]

theory doesn't speak in audio world. i don't care if the Z cinema uses triple amplifier to drive the speakers. one for subwoofer, one for mid, and another for tweeter. that is why there is 2 plugs connecting the left satellites which explains the tri-amplification.

 

in the end? my single amp klipsch ifi blow the z cinema away. of course it cost much more, the satellites of iFi (RSX-3) still retails for $100 a piece. and the iFi internals are much more complicated than Z2300 or even Z cinema. heck, the toroidal they use for iFi is much bigger than Z2300 or Z5500 transformer although it only supply less than 200W AC current. (18V 5A x2 + 10V 1A = 190VA AC).

 

don't forget, when you read the value of the op-amps, the maximum ratings are supplied with certain level of voltage. if the transformer used in Z2300 does not have the exact voltage rating, the output power will be decreased. could you tell me the rating of Z2300 secondary windings? i don't have the Z cinema rating since it's using switching.

 

no offense, but it seems like you're overrating the product. i think the Z2300 speaks for itself..