Video Chat Applications (Non-Logitech)

[KachiWachi Distinguished Logi Legend]

How to make your Logitech camera work in an IM.

First off...

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ALL Instant Messenger (IM) issues are either "IM" or "networking" issues...they are not Logitech related problems...end of story.

Please contact the IM vendor directly, or visit their Help and Support web pages for further assistance. You may also need to contact your ISP and "networking hardware" support groups for assistance with these items.

The only fully supported video conferencing software is Logitech's own VideoCall service.

(**Update 1/2008** - As I understand it, VideoCall has reached EOL and is no longer being supported by Logitech. More information to follow. Thanks.)

Logitech (and myself) will assist you with all third-party IM software issues at our discretion. My personal opinion here is that you will be better served by posting your issues to the support/discussion forum offered by the IM program vendor.

Please make sure that you are running the latest version of the Logitech supplied QuickCam Software for your camera before posting your question.

Please note that the intent of this forum is NOT to provide step-by-step instruction on how to operate your IM software, but to aid you in diagnosing whether the problem you are experiencing is related to your Logitech camera hardware and/or software.

If you are looking for a general Instant Messenger "tutorial", please see FAQ #8078 or this web page.

If you are looking for Instant Messenger "setup" instructions, please see FAQ #8526.

Specific information about each Instant Messenger can be found in the FAQ. Please use the name of the IM as your search term (e.g.: AIM, MSN, etc...).

Note - For the purposes of this discussion, the term "IM" refers to any third-party application or website that "operates" the camera in a "broadcasting" mode.

With that being said, here are some tips to get you going.

What to do first -

The first thing you need to do is to see if your camera operates properly when using the Logitech supplied QuickCam software application...even if you never intend to use your camera this way. If the camera does not function properly here, it cannot be expected to function properly in any other application.

Example 1: If your system "crashes" after running the camera in your IM for five minutes, then you need to make a five minute video in QuickCam...to see if the same thing happens there.

Example 2: The other party says that the image you are sending is blurry, laggy, delayed, choppy, not "in sync", etc... See if the same results occur when you use the camera in QuickCam. If so, please see this thread.

Bottom line...If the camera operates properly in the Logitech supplied QuickCam software package, then your problem is not related to the camera/drivers/software.

IM program issues -

First, you need to determine if your IM program is recognizing the camera. If it is, then you are half way there. Most of you do not seem to have this problem. If you do, and you have a "TV tuner" video card installed in your PC, it will have to be disabled, or "switched off", using Vidcap32. If you don't, then you should try re-running the IM program's "Camera Detection Wizard" (you did do this when you first installed the IM program...right?).

If the IM program crashes while using your camera, this would be because either the program is faulty in some way, or your PC is being overworked.

If you think that the IM program is faulty, try the latest (or a previous) version of the software to see if the situation improves.

You can easily see if your PC is being overworked by calling up the Task Manager (Ctrl-Shift-Esc), and note the CPU Usage in the graph. To reduce the CPU load, try reducing the image size and/or the FPS of the transmitted and received "signals".

Be aware that when you are in a video conversation, your PC is rendering two audio and two video streams...not just one...as it would be when you are just using QuickCam to record a video. That's twice the work that it would "normally" perform in this situation.

Next, you'll need to find out if it is the audio stream or the video stream that is causing the crash to occur. See if you can successfully initiate each of these "conversations" separately...to help narrow down the cause of the crashing. For instance, if you can successfully initiate a "video only" conversation, but the IM crashes once you add audio, then you will know that the problem is somehow related to the addition of the audio stream. You would then need to initiate an "audio only" conversation to confirm this hypothesis.

"Webcam in use" message appears: You will see this message if you are accessing the camera in QuickCapture prior to using your Instant Messenger program.

Since only one "video aware" application can use the camera at a time, any and all other subsequent attempts to "connect" to it will fail.

Exception: You are using third-party "video cloning" software that will allow multiple applications to see and use the camera simultaneously.

To check for this issue, please make sure that QuickCapture is not in use, or close the Logitech supplied QuickCam software application ( a.k.a. "Control Strip" ) completely...and access the camera directly from your Instant Messenger program.

Technically speaking, the appearance of this message means that another application has a handle open to the device.

(Ref: this QuickCam® Team Discussion Forums thread)

Networking issues -

This is where most of you will have problems, saying that "I can't see/hear the other party, or they can't see/hear me".

This points directly to "networking" issues on your PC, or at the receiving end.

By "networking", I mean everything required to physically connect you to the Internet, or that your "signals" pass through on their way to the Internet. Examples include dial-up modems, routers, broadband modems, wireless connection (including encryption), hardware/software firewalls, hardware-based NAT, QoS, UPnP, Anti-SPAM / Ad-ware / "Security Center" software, your ISP / network provider, etc...

Note that the speed of your connection has nothing to do with this issue...though your FPS *may* increase with faster connections.

Most IM's can connect to you in a "Server Mode" configuration...meaning that a third-party "server" exists between you and the receiving party. The server will control the audio and the frame rate you see on the screen. This is limited (usually) to about 3 Frames Per Second (FPS).

You can also connect Peer-to-Peer (P2P). This is a direct connection between you and the receiving party. Frame rate here is *unlimited* (though in reality, I have seen approximately 10 FPS). This would be limited by the upload bandwidth provided by your ISP connection (128 Kb, 384 Kb, 768 Kb, 1.5 Mb, etc...), normal network traffic, the amount of data being sent, etc...

To connect P2P, your "networking" must be set up to allow this. For example, the Yahoo! Messenger allows P2P video (Super Webcam Mode) on port 5100 TCP. This port must be available to the "network", or this feature will be disallowed. To make this port available, you must allow it in your firewall, NAT, "Security Center" software, etc...

For more information on the Yahoo! Messenger, please see this Yahoo! Help/FAQ article - How do I configure my firewall/proxy server?

You will have to have an understanding of your own networking hardware/software in order to set this up. Assistance from your ISP, networking hardware support group, or a knowledgeable friend, may be required here. As mentioned previously, the intent of this forum is NOT to provide instruction on how to configure your network/networking hardware.

Note that some industries and schools block ports for their own (usually security related) reasons. In this instance, you will have to contact your IT department for further assistance.

To test the port availability of your PC, you can use the ShieldsUP!! utility found at GRC.com.

For Windows Live Messenger (WLM) and MSN Messenger (MSN), a different approach is used. For security reasons, one port is not selected for P2P audio and video. The port you get is randomly selected. To get around this, you can allow all port traffic into/out of your PC, but that is an invitation to disaster. WLM uses a technology called UPnP networking. This technology is designed to allow the networking traffic as requested by the program requiring it. For this feature to work properly, UPnP needs to be turned on in Windows, and your networking hardware must support it. If either of these is not present, it won't work, and you will only be able to connect in "server mode". The MSN program has a feature that can tell you how it is connected to the Internet, to assist you in setting it up properly. Please see the MSN Messenger Help web page or the Windows Live Messenger help web page ( click on "View more questions" ) for more information about this topic.

If you are interested in which ports are in use on you PC at any given moment, you can download the TCPView application from Microsoft.

Sometimes, you will have problems with getting both audio and video at the same time; the audio gets choppy for example. Check to see if QoS is enabled or not. The Quality of Service (QoS) Packet scheduler is a networking feature that reserves some network bandwidth for just that...quality of service. This setting is found in the Network Properties of the connection being used. Try it each way...see which works better for you. Please reference FAQ #58 for more information.

"Waiting for Permission" error: Sometimes, the "direction of contact" matters. Check to see if the problem occurs when you present the "invite", or when the other party presents the "invite". The cause of this error is most likely a "port" or NAT restriction at either end.

"Double NAT": This will occur if you have two NAT capable devices in your system. If possible, you should disable the NAT on one of the devices.

Audio/Acoustic Echo Cancellation issues -

For information regarding the Logitech Audio Tuning Wizard, please see FAQ #2835.

For all AEC related issues (feedback, static, hissing, squealing), please reference this post.

White/Pink Noise Static/Hiss, QuickCam® STX - Please contact Logitech Support directly for furrther assistance with this issue.

Note - For QuickCam 11.8.0.1065, the AEC is no longer an available option for the user. The user can only choose to select/enable Noise Suppression. The Noise Suppression algorithm used in 11.80 is newer (previously only available for QC Orbit AF) and from another vendor than in past releases. (Ref: FAQ #6797)

Communications_Helper.exe

Coming soon!

For the moment, please see this post by Logitech Sr. Software Engineer geepers for more information.

Skype specific issue - The microphone volume decreases to zero during a conversation

In Skype, go to Tools/Options/Advanced, near the bottom of the window you will see that it says "Manage Other Program's Access to Skype". It's not obvious that this is actually a selectable option, but if you click on that text, you'll get another window. If you see "Communication_Helper.exe" listed, click on it and then click "Deny Access". (jawatson)

Note - The Communications Helper feature does not have to be active in order for you to use your camera with an IM! This means that it is OK for the "Select video calling application" box to say "None detected"!!!

(Ref: FAQ #8526)

Hardware issues -

You may have an issue where your Internet connection drops when you turn on the camera. This can happen if your broadband modem is connected to the PC by USB, and both the camera and the modem are on the same USB Controller.

This is simply an issue of two high-bandwidth devices overloading the bus.

The solution here is to move the modem (or camera) onto a separate USB Controller...using FAQ #3139 as a guide.

If the modem has an Ethernet connection available, then this would be an even better solution...since this is what Ethernet is designed for.

If you run "wireless" and are having connection issues, please try a "wired" connection to see if things improve.

It is also possible that you could lose either audio or video due to insufficient USB bandwidth. The solution mentioned above will apply here as well.

For more information about USB, please see this very informative Wikipedia® article entitled Universal Serial Bus, or visit USB.org.

Technical information -

Logitech uses the Microsoft DirectShow® API for media-streaming. If an application implements this API correctly, the camera should perform as expected.

• On Windows, the available streaming formats are I420 and RGB24 when the camera is used with the Logitech UVC driver.

• With the Microsoft UVC driver built into Windows, the native YUY2 and MJPG formats are exported instead.

For *most* applications, you will be limited to ~10 FPS (USB limitation of 12 Mbps), unless your camera is detected as an Enhanced USB 2.0 device (480 Mbps).

160x120 x 24-bit color x      30 FPS x (format)  =     9,216,000 bps      (9.216 Mbps)
320x240 x 24-bit color x 9.766 FPS x (format)  =   12,000,000 bps    (12.000 Mbps)

640x480 x 24-bit color x 2.441 FPS x (format)  =   12,000,000 bps    (12.000 Mbps)

320x240 x 24-bit color x      30 FPS x (format)  =   36,864,000 bps    (36.864 Mbps)
640x480 x 24-bit color x      30 FPS x (format)  = 147,456,000 bps  (147.456 Mbps)

The video format in this case is FOURCC YUY2 or YUV422 (format = 2/3).

In an broadcast situation, frame rates between 15-30 frames per second are required so the image isn't jerky, and so that mouth movements are in sync with the audio. At these frame rates, a 160x120 image requires about 100,000 bits per second (kbps), a 320x240 image requires about 350 kbps, and a 640x480 image requires about 1,500 kbps (1.5 Mbps).

The broadcast program in use is responsible for converting the camera data into a format that your Internet upstream bandwidth can accommodate. Per the data above, this represents a compression ratio of about 100:1.

Skype High Quality Video (HQV) -

Please reference the following FAQ for more information.

FAQ #7287 - Reference: High Quality Video (HQV) Standard for Video Calls

Apple iChat Support -

Only iChat for OSX 10.5 offers USB camera compatibility. For OSX 10.4 and earlier, USB cameras are not supported.

Please see "Everything Macintosh" for more information.

Note - Per this article, iChat is compatible with the AIM software.

Note - Information concerning the Internal iSight (USB) to follow. KW

Adobe/Macromedia Flash Support -

Please contact the website in question for further assistance with this issue.

You may also need to contact Adobe Support for further assistance (i.e.: camera not recognized, etc...).

Windows Media Encoder Support -

Want to broadcast without using an IM?

Please see this tutotial written by forum member NairB.

Windows Media Encoder 9 & Your Logitech Webcam

Frequently asked Questions -

Q: Can I record the person I'm viewing?

A: This issue has been previously discussed, and multiple solutions have been provided.

Please search the forum for more information.

(Note - Recording a conversation without the expressed permission of the other party *may* violate your state and/or local laws. Please make sure that you have permission to record any and all conversations before doing so. Thanks.)

Final Comments -

For those of you that mention "advertising", please note that the Logitech webcam hardware is "designed" to be used with the QuickCam software application. All other uses of the camera are defined as being "compatible". Nowhere does Logitech state that their hardware is "designed to be used with (your favorite) Instant Messenger". IIRC, they use the term "works with"...which has a totally different meaning.

Please see this comment posted by Support Specialist bluja000 for an "Official Logitech Response" to this issue.

My personal thought is that there is no such thing as a "web camera"...which I define as a camera that is designed specifically for use on the Internet. By definition, this cannot be possible.

What you really have is a PC Camera that can be used on the Internet.

Since the Internet was not designed with video communications in mind (rather, it was designed for the spread of information), you cannot expect it to perform at 100% when used in this way.

I will be adding more tips and refining this "FAQ" as required on a continual basis.

Thanks.

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD FOR ASSISTANCE.

THANK YOU.

Message Edited by KachiWachi on 09-27-2008 07:45 AM

[KachiWachi Distinguished Logi Legend]

Special Issues


1) BSOD in NetMeeting when QuickCam 11.8.0.1065 is installed.

http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=9056

http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=6797

Please upgrade the camera software/drivers to QuickCam 11.9.0.1263.


2) Video Effects Error 0x80040606 when QuickCam 11.9.0.1263 is installed.

http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=8355

http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/logitech_en_amr.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=6797

This is by design.

Supported 3rd party applications with Video Effects feature

• Yahoo
• WLM
• Skype
• AOL

3) Video Effects Error 0x80040606 when the Logitech Webcam Software (LWS) 1.00.1280 (a.k.a. QuickCam 12.00.1280) is installed.

Per the HTML Readme file:

In order for Video Effects to work, a filter needs to be attached to the supporting application. In situations where Video Effects are not supported with a desired application, a generic error message will be presented. In order to correct this situation, visit the webcam settings pane available on the webcam software ribbon, and select the Application Preferences tab. From here you will be able to add your application to the video effects supported list by selecting the settings option for the Video Effects applications support. If the issue continues to be encountered after enabling the application, contact support.


4) The Video Conferencing feature in Microsoft Live Messenger 2009 (v14) does not work when the McAfee® SiteAdvisor® software is installed.

http://service.mcafee.com/faqdocument.aspx?id=TS100601

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New Software - June 17, 2009


Logitech® Vid™

This "optional" software application is the successor to VideoCall. It is fully supported by Logitech.

For more information, please see Support for Logitech Vid - FAQ #11732.


Please post all comments concerning this software to the Logitech Vid forum.




Thanks.

Message Edited by KachiWachi on 06-17-2009 08:35 PM