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Logi Rook
bcwang
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-18-2010
Accepted Solution

Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

[ Edited ]

Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at a real native 1280x720?

 

I think No....why?  read below.

 

- at 640x480, Skype and Vid HD report 30fps are transmitted.  At 1280x720, they both report 15fps.  This is not a bandwidth or CPU limitation, as it is on a local lan and also loopback testing (vid HD)  and cpu utilization is not that high.  With just this fact, it could be simply a sofware limitation in HD mode for these chat programs.

 

- using quick capture, 640x480 looks a smooth 30fps in the preview window, 720p optimized (interpolated lower res video to 720p..IE fake 720p) it looks pretty smooth too, maybe 30fps.  But 720p large (real 720p it seems) is obviously running at a lower frame rate.  This is in the preview windows where 640x480 look super smooth.  (I already know quick capture can't save video above 15fps, but that is besides the point).  Hmm, weird.

 

-using amcap, under 640x480 and 640x360, it allows 30fps.  However, when you choose 1280x720 as the video pin, it only shows a max of 15fps as the frame rate.

 

- I tested all these with a flashlight pointed at the lens so the exposure can be set to the lowest setting and gain as well, so it's clear it's not a light level problem.  The computer is a 3.2ghz core2 duo, barely uses CPU when previewing video.  Windows 7 32-bit.

 

- So is Logitech's claim that the webcam pro 9000 can do 30fps @ 1280x720 meaning this "optimized" fake 720p mode?  I've yet to see this camera do 30fps in a real 720p mode yet.  If it can, someone show me the software or configuration that can get it working.  Right now I'm believing the WebCam Pro 9000 cannot do 30fps at the native 1280x720 capture setting.

Logi Rook
bcwang
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-18-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

[ Edited ]

Unbelievable, I found the problem and made 30fps work!  The problem is the latest driver version 13.0.1783.0 doesn't allow 30fps in any mode except 640x480 and below.  This driver also has the problem of identifying itself as driver version 12.10.1110 in the device manager panel, as well as logitech's own webcam properties device info panel.  Obviously the driver is broken in some way.

 

Thanks to KachiWachi who in another thread pointed out trying out UVC drivers. During the experimentation, with UVC drivers,  I made the camera use the actual 12.10.1110 driver (from 2009) as well and got the best results.  Of course in the device manager panel as well as logitech's own control panel, it still shows up as 12.10.1110.  The difference being that 30fps is supported at 1280x720 now!  It also supports it at intermediate resolutions like 864x480.  Even more ridiculous is that the UVC mode basic windows drivers also work at 30fps at 1280x720.  It's not as nice with the uvc drivers as there will be no autofocus and no auto gain, so the 12.10.1110 drivers are better than the UVC ones.

 

So why does logitech's latest driver (13.0.1783.0) prevent 30fps above 640x480?  One guess... you do see sensor artifacts at 1280x720@30fps if your lighting is not very strong.  At 15fps with the same exposure settings, these artifacts disappear.  Maybe logitech decided to hide away this feature for fear of people seeing the problems with the sensor at this setting.  However, with strong light the artifacts are minimal, and 30fps at HD resolutions looks sweet!  864x480 has no artifacts I can see, in this case 30fps paired with it has no drawback to the 15fps limit version of it using the latest drivers.

 

So is the 15fps missing because of a bug, or on purpose?  Only logitech knows.   Will they reply here?  We'll see...

 

 

 

KachiWachi
Posts: 47,826
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Registered: ‎05-22-2006

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?


bcwang sez -

This driver [13.0.1783.0] also has the problem of identifying itself as driver version 12.10.1110 in the device manager panel, as well as logitech's own webcam properties device info panel.


Are you absolutely sure about this?


On my Windows XP system, the driver version is identified correctly.



Thanks.


KachiWachi - Webcam Forum Guru (2002), Logi Legend (2007), Distinguished Logi Legend (2010), QuickCam® Team Forums (2007)
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Logitech Webcam Software 2.x (a.k.a. QuickCam 13.x) - Issues and Solutions
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QuickCam 11.0.0.1218 / 11.1.0.2030 / 11.5.0.1169 / 11.8.0.1065 / 11.9.0.1263 - Issues and Solutions

Is your problem one of these older, common, known, or repeat issues?     "Everything Macintosh"
How to make your Logitech camera work in an IM                     Are you looking for (older) software?
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Logi Rook
bcwang
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-18-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

 


KachiWachi wrote:
Are you absolutely sure about this?


On my Windows XP system, the driver version is identified correctly.



Thanks.

Yes, I checked multiple times which is what got me confused at first.  While I was testing out all the different drivers, I was trying to figure out why sometimes I was getting 30fps and sometimes not when the driver version showed 12.10.1110.  Then I remembered I was trying to switch to 13.0.178 and in the meantime forgot I did so, relying on the status.  The 30fps option went away, but the control panel still showed 12.10.1110.  It wasn't until I paid more attention to what I was doing that I realized switching to the newer driver made the 30fps option go away, but all references show it's using 12.10.1110.  Using the actual 12.10.1110 fixed things.

 

Now my system is windows 7 -32 bit, I don't know if maybe that is a cause of the weird behavior.  Also, you might not be using the same camera, the drivers are camera specific.  I can have another logitech camera plugged in and it may show a different driver than the webcam pro 9000.

 

If anyone else has a webcam pro 9000 maybe they can comment about how the latest driver behaves on their system.

Logi Rook
bcwang
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-18-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

[ Edited ]

Well what do you know, today the driver version is showing up correctly with 13.0.178.  Maybe something got stuck in some weird state until I rebooted.  In any case, there is no behavior diffference, 30fps with 1280x720 is still not possible with 13.0.178.  For now I'll stay with 12.10.1110.

 

Using driver 12.10.1110 I noticed:

 

- 1280x720@30fps has a completely different field of view than 1280x720@15fps, it is much narrower.  I don't know why that is but it's quite odd.  The same with 960x720@30fps, a much narrower field of view.  Most other settings have the same width of view, aspect ratio differences makes the height different.

 

- With some testing, I've determined so far the best quality achieved in video is at 800x600@15fps, it gives the absolute clearest, sharpest, non-aliased video of any of the modes I've tried so far.  It also makes for the best looking photos.  Too bad the quick capture software doesn't use that setting as the screen captures I get from it are incredible for a webcam.

 

KachiWachi
Posts: 47,826
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Registered: ‎05-22-2006

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?


bcwang wrote:

Using driver 12.10.1110 I noticed:

 

- 1280x720@30fps has a completely different field of view than 1280x720@15fps, it is much narrower.  I don't know why that is but it's quite odd.  The same with 960x720@30fps, a much narrower field of view.  Most other settings have the same width of view, aspect ratio differences makes the height different.


http://forums.quickcamteam.net/showthread.php?tid=1059&pid=4067#pid4067



Thanks.


KachiWachi - Webcam Forum Guru (2002), Logi Legend (2007), Distinguished Logi Legend (2010), QuickCam® Team Forums (2007)
(I am not affiliated with Logitech®, Inc., Lithium™ Technologies, Inc., or RightNow® Technologies, Inc.)
  Have you checked your Logitech Forums Private Messages today?  

If you are looking for official Logitech Customer / Technical Support, please >> CLICK HERE <<

In order to help keep the forum content "fresh", please do not post a reply to any thread that is over six (6) months old.


* Please note that I am currently providing "general" troubleshooting assistance in the public forums once 24 hours have passed.
* However, if I am interested in your issue, and for all "advanced" issues, I will be sending you a Private Message before then.
* Thanks.

* PS - If one of my replies has adequately addressed your issue, please click on the "Accept as Solution" and "Give Kudos" buttons, so that this information can benefit others.

New to Webcams? START HERE!

Logitech Webcam Software 2.x (a.k.a. QuickCam 13.x) - Issues and Solutions
Logitech Webcam Software 1.00.1280 / 1.10.1113 (a.k.a. QuickCam 12.x) - Issues and Solutions
QuickCam 11.0.0.1218 / 11.1.0.2030 / 11.5.0.1169 / 11.8.0.1065 / 11.9.0.1263 - Issues and Solutions

Is your problem one of these older, common, known, or repeat issues?     "Everything Macintosh"
How to make your Logitech camera work in an IM                     Are you looking for (older) software?
Why your older Logitech camera *may* not be supported on Windows Vista, 7, 8, and/or on a 64-bit OS
Logi Browser
BYUFanatic
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎06-28-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

bcwang -

 

Could you tell me how you set it to 30fps?

 

I've recently downloaded software version 2.0 (build 13.0.1783).

 

This version is COMPLETELY different than the one that was on my CD when I bought the camera. It has a lot less settings available on it. Do I need to find my CD and re-install the old version? I specifically bought this camera because I wanted to have a "high end" camera for creating videos for my website (I teach sign language) and it is CRITICAL that the videos are smooth and crisp. Unfortunately, the videos made so far are no better than the $30 webcams I bought earlier.

 

I'm ok with it being 640x480. I can live with that. But I MUST have sharp videos with no pixelation at 30fps. *sigh*

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

 

Logi Browser
BYUFanatic
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎06-28-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

I forgot to mention -

 

I'm running Windows 7 (64 bit OS)

4gig RAM

Intel i5 2.27 GHz CPU

 

So processing speed should not be an issue.

 

Rob

Logi Rook
bcwang
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-18-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

 


BYUFanatic wrote:

bcwang -

 

Could you tell me how you set it to 30fps?

 

I've recently downloaded software version 2.0 (build 13.0.1783).

 

This version is COMPLETELY different than the one that was on my CD when I bought the camera. It has a lot less settings available on it. Do I need to find my CD and re-install the old version? I specifically bought this camera because I wanted to have a "high end" camera for creating videos for my website (I teach sign language) and it is CRITICAL that the videos are smooth and crisp. Unfortunately, the videos made so far are no better than the $30 webcams I bought earlier.

 

I'm ok with it being 640x480. I can live with that. But I MUST have sharp videos with no pixelation at 30fps. *sigh*

 

Thanks!

 

Rob

 


 

Just install LWS 1.1 (pick ultra vision cam and you can download it) and make sure your camera is using the driver from it which is 12.10.1110 I believe.  Then you'll have access to 30fps @ 1280x720 and 864x480 which both look non-interpolated but with a much narrower field of view than the other modes.  You'll need lots of light though or you'll have to raise the gain and have lots of noise.  Many other resolutions at 30fps look interpolated, including 640x360,  640x480, and 800x600.  However, once you move to 15fps, 800x600, 864x480, 640x480, 640x360, they look very good with low noise.  I assume you don't care about these as FPS is your main concern.

 

My guess for your needs... the best setting is to use 864x480 @ 30fps for best quality videos under very good indoor lighting situations.  You'll need tons of light, like daytime outdoors before 720p is noise free enough to use over 864x480 imho.

 

Also, if you need consistent frame rates, turn off rightlight, set the exposure slider to no more than the middle setting, and adjust room lighting or gain to get the look you want.  By keeping the exposure no higher than the middle, you will maintain smooth video

 

By the way, if you're using logitech quick capture, you won't be able to record any higher than 15fps anyway.  You'll have to use something like AMCap to record at 30fps.

 

Good luck with your videos!

 

Logi Browser
BYUFanatic
Posts: 15
Registered: ‎06-28-2010

Re: Can the WebCam Pro 9000 really do 30fps at 1280x720?

Thanks for the info.

 

So even if I download another version of quickcapture I'll still have to use a third party software in order to get 30fps? I've tried 15fps at 640x480 and some hand/arm motions end up becoming blurry, so I'm really thinking I'll need 30fps. At someone else's recommendation, I've downloaded and tested Microsoft Expression Encoder. I've played with the settings on that and can get 30fps, but the problem is there are blue pixel streaks on the picture. BIG blue pixel streaks. Doesn't matter what setting I use, I can't get rid of them. Maybe if I played with every possible setting I could get it, but I don't have that kind of time.

 

I'll download AMCap and try that one.

 

Crossing my fingers and hoping your insights help! The finished product is a 874x480 .flv file. I have a blue screen behind me in the raw footage and I key the screen out and put several layers in front of and behind me. Really struggling with the blue screen because blurry motions often end up getting keyed out and my arms/hands literally disappear from the screen. Not a good thing. *grin* You can look at the introduction video on  my website for an idea of what I do:

 

www.westwoodasl.com/moodle

 

Thanks for your help! Going to download AMCap now...

 

Rob