Wireless Music Systems (READ ONLY ARCHIVE)

[MELJS]

Hi All

I've been having a very strange issue with my Squeezebox Radio for the past few weeks.

Every night at around the same time it seems to trip all of the power in the house. I've tracked this down to somewhere between 5am and 7am.

I've tried another Squeezebox Radio power supply which I borrowed from a friend, but still the same issue.

Never any trouble during the daylight hours and never troble playing music/radio.

Sounds crazy but I am stumped !!!!

Any ideas ?

I've upgraded to latest firware versions etc..

Thanks

MELBJS

[garymc]

this is certainly a new one!  What makes you think it is the radio that causes the power to trip? Have you tested with anything else plugged into the same outlet instead (a TV, a microwave, etc.). And/or tried the radio at a different outlet.  Unlikely that this is actually the radio causing this unless you have a bad radio with some sort of short in it.... and even this would cause the breaker for that outlet to trip, not the entire house. I think you have a larger issue....the radio is a symptom.

[MELJS]

Thanks for replying Garymc

It is actually only the specific plug circuit that trips and not all power (apologies if not clear in my post).

I've been adding appliances one-by-one each night for 2 weeks and after the radio was added it tripped again. Next night no radio all good. Night after that with radio same problem.

Even stranger is that it always happens at around the same time of day (early morning)... which initially led me to think it was an appliance with some form of clock which was causing the issue. I've not yet plugged in the NAS with Squeezeboz Server running, so the radio gets its time straight from the net via the wireless router.

Will try the radio in another outlet as suggested, but also strange that I have no issue f or the other 22 hours of the day that the radio is plugged in. Can't think what sort of trigger would cause a short at a specific time other than maybe a wake-up alarm...of which I have none set.

Any other suggestions welcome...willing to try anything :-)

Thanks again

[garymc]

hmmmm. This is an odd one. did you try the radio plugged into a different outlet (that's on a different breaker?). that would help islolate that it is the radio not the circuit. You might also post at:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/

You might find someone with ideas in that forum.

[Transporter]

Specific is always better, especially when dealing with a circuit issue.

So lets answer some specific questions giving specific answers.

1) Where is the outlet located? What Room, which wall?

2) Is the Radio the only thing plugged into that outlet? (other outlet open)

3) Are you using a power strip?

4) If yes to 3, what else is plugged into the power strip?

5) If yes to 3, does the power strip have a breaker or reset on it?

6) If yes to 3, what are the watt rating on each device plugged in?

7) If yes to 3, does the power strip have MOVs?

The reason of all the power strip questions is that they can represent a load higher then the outlet's breaker rating and if it is a surge protector power strip with MOVs it could be time for a new strip if it has had to many strikes/spikes.

8) What is the amp rating of the breaker that is tripping?

9) Do you know or have a way to check what other outlets are on the breaker that is tripping?

10) Do you know if the outlet is properly wired? Hot to Hot, Neutral to Neutral, Ground to Ground and working properly? For $3 you can get a 3 LED wall outlet tester at Home Depot or Lowes. One of these is good for seeing what other wall outlets are on the same breaker. Turn the breaker off, plug the tester in, no LEDs lit, outlet is on that breaker (as long as no wall switches are involved and no other breakers are off). 

[MELJS]

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Some more info...

- The radio is in plugged into the outlet next to the bed in the main bedroom and is the only thing plugged in there.

- I've tried it in other rooms and same issue

- I have only one circuit for all wallplugs.... all other appliances on this one (fridge, washing machine, etc..) and no issues when I leave them all plugged in without the radio. When I add the radio to the mix the problem starts and when I remove it again I'm back to no tripping. 

- No powerboard being used

Given that this always happens in the early hour of morning (I wake up in the night and all is still well with the radio), I'm starting to think it could be to do with the ambient light sensor kicking in at the first hint of light.

Thats my theory anyway :-)

Will also post to the slimdevices forum and have lodged a query with Logitech themselves.

Thanks again for the help !

[garymc]

Do you have something else that draws power that you can leave unplugged overnight. This would test whether it is just the extra power being drawn (by anything) that pushes the circuit over the limit. And in your case, the extra is the radio. It would be nice to test whether *anything* extra could push it over the limit. This said, I doubt this is the issue because if it was a drawing too much power issue, it would happen as soon as you plug in the radio. In your case, it all works, but something happens in the middle of the night....

[MELJS]

I spoke to an electrician when this first started as didn't realise was the radio. He told me that was not a "load" issue (same as your gut feel) as that would not just trip the circuit breaker but rather the whole board. The tripping of the circuit breaker implies a short in a product that is earthed. I'm ready to start using this as a player when I need to and then turn off at night so lose the clock/alarm functionality..... unless Logitech will be a good OEM and support a replace.  

[Transporter]

We still don't have the rating in Amps of the breaker that is tripping. To solve this problem/figure it out, we need all the information we can get and direct detailed answers to questions we ask.

You said the main panel breaker is not tripping but a specific single breaker is tripping. We need to know every device that is on the breaker that is tripping. If its in the bedroom there is no way the refrigerator or any kitchen appliance is on that circuit unless your home was wired without a contractor or electrician. 

It is impossible for an ambient light sensor to cause a breaker to trip unless that breaker is defective. Most wall outlets are on 15 amp breakers.  If this is the case, its no possible for the SB Radio to cause a breaker to trip if its the only thing on that breaker unless the breaker is faulty or the SB Radio power supply shorts and doesn't burn open before the breaker trips (basically impossible). In which case, the SB Radio would not work again off that same power supply because it would be dead.

Logic then leads one to believe you have a faulty breaker that needs to be replaced, the circuit is not wired correctly, or there is actually way more then you think on the circuit which means the circuit is so close to being overloaded that the addition of 1 Amp additional draw causes the breaker to trip.

Question: Is the breaker warm or hot when you touch it after it trips?

[LSH]

Your Squeezebox Radio has an AC power adapter / wall transformer which may have an intermittent internal short. The short may somehow take place only after the adapter has been plugged in / warmed up for a period of time, or when the room temperature rises / falls to some point where the short occurs mechanically, or when some other component within the radio or adapter decides to draw too much current. There also could be some other load which comes on in the middle of the night which drops your line voltage (such as air conditioning, an electric hot water heater, refrigerator compressor, etc.) which would not directly load the breaker in question, but would provoke the failure due to lower line voltage, higher line voltage, a transient spike (such as inductive loads of the types I mentioned often produce).

It is not uncommon for UL approved wall transformers to have a thermal overload protection method to shut the unit down if there is an excessive temperature rise / resulting potential fire hazard.

If it were one of my SBRs (I own 3) I would merely swap adapters and see if one of the three was at fault. Since this is not an option, you could ask Logitech for a replacement under your warranty and see if this fixes the problem.

Good luck,

Larry